Transcript of interview with Alison Paterson for the Dunedin Dance Halls project

Alison Paterson recalls Dunedin Dance Halls, the Joe Brown and St Kilda Dances, the music and the dance steps.

Recording identification: This is an interview with Alison Paterson on 29th August 2022, and the interview started at 2pm.  The interview is for the Dunedin Public Libraries' He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds Digital Archive Dance Halls oral history project. The main interviewer is Kay Mercer. with Jill Bowie also asking some of the questions. The interview is being held at Alison's home in Roslyn, Dunedin. It is recorded on a Zoom H5 Digital Recorder, using Countryman Isomax clip-on microphones.

ABSTRACT

00:48    Introduction and recording permission

01:48   Childhood - born in Nelson, grew up in Waimate and Dunedin

03:08   Difficulties of buying homes in Dunedin after the Second World War - new housing built on at Lookout Point

04:28    Riselaw Road School

05:08    Bible class dances

06:08    Dances learnt as a child - waltz, quick-step, Canadian Schotissche, Gypsy Tap

06:48    Boys in their Teddy Boy haircuts, winkle-picker shoes, Brylcreamed hair

07:28    Transport to the dances - bus

07:48    Start/finish time for the dances

08:28    Practicing new dances at the nursing home as a student nurse in Balclutha, as well as at the Town Hall dances

09:08    Life as a student nurse in Balclutha

10:08    Travelling to the Dunedin dances by car

11:28    Cost of going to the dances

12:08    Country dances on the farm in Waimate - visitors from the Marae at Waihao would play guitar at the end of harvest

12:48    Father's difficulty adjusting to post-war life

13:28    Girls getting ready for the dances with friends, and having their hair done - perms and beehives

14:08    Harry Strang, South Dunedin Town Hall

15:28    Dresses and accessories for the dance - early 1960's

17:28    Making your own clothes - iron-on stiffening to make the skirts fan out

18:08    Wardrobe - making do on a tight budget - low pay for nurses

19:08    Music on the radio and record players in the nursing home - popular musicians of the day

20:28    Atmosphere at the dances, decorations, behaviour, etiquette

23:28    The bands - the Cadons [?spelling]

24:48    The dances - twist, Canadian Schotissche, Gypsy Tap

26:08    Boys seemed to prefer formality of ballroom to Rock and Roll; talcum powder on the floor

27:08    Dances as a way to meet future spouse

28:28    The end of the Town Hall dances

29:08    Pressure to find a partner before you got beyond early 20s

30:08    Entertainment beyond the Town Hall dances - woolshed balls, nurses' home balls, Deerstalker, Harry Strang's at South Dunedin

33:08    6 o'clock closing - effect on entertainments, importance of the dances for the social scene

33:48    Joe Brown as entrepreneur, Winter Show, community sing

36:28    A&P shows, Field Days

37:07    Fondest memories of dance halls - dancing, well-behaved

38:27    Remembering mother's enjoyment of dancing

________________________________________________________

00:48

Kay: Alison, thank you so much for having us today. We're here to talk about the Joe Brown Dances, and your memories of that, so it's wonderful to be here, and thank you so much for having us in your home. Before we go any further I want to confirm that you understand that this material is being recorded for archival purposes primarily, for the Dunedin Public Libraries' He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds Digital Archive. The recording will be held in the He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds digital archive www.dunedin.recollect.co.nz (the Archive). A copy of the recording may be held on repository in digital form by Dunedin Public Libraries. Material held in the the Archive is freely accessible by the general public, as specified in the written Recording Agreement we have provided to you to sign, and which you've already signed for us, thank you so much. Are you happy with that and are you willing to continue with the recording?

Alison: Yes, I am.

Kay: Wonderful. Thank you so much. So, we have some questions for you, but feel free to talk about your memories as they come to you, 'cause memories come and go, as you know. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself to start with? Where did you grow up?

01:48

Alison: I grew up in Dunedin. I was born in Nelson. And then we lived in Auckland for a little while. My father wasn't well. He'd been badly shellshocked during the war, and he went into the Hanmer, in Christchurch. And we lived for a short time after that with our grandparents out on a farm, and our aunt and uncle in Waimate. I started school up there, and then we came down here. Dad got a job. Dad worked for the Government. He was... in lands and surveys, updating all the different areas that had lapsed during the Second World War. Then we came here, and we lived for a short time over in Cramond Avenue in Corstorphine.

03:08

Coming back here, you could not buy a house. There were no houses for sale, because all the soldiers were coming back with their families. And so we rented a house over there. And Mum and Dad had looked at another area of... over at Lookout Point, where you could choose a section off a plan, which was a quarter acre section, and the houses were all built... and I think because our fathers had been in the army, most of the people were returned servicemen with their families, and you got a 3% loan. So from there... so we lived there for a short time... probably for about a year. And then the house at Lookout Point was built.

Kay: How old were you then?

Alison: I was five or six.

Kay: Oh, quite young?

Alison: Yeah, quite young. So we were all new people to the area.

Kay: And you got to know each other as newbies, yeah.

04:28

Alison: Yeah, we did. And that was where I met Barbara. We started school on the same day. Yeah, so that was... and then I went to Riselaw Road School. I had two brothers. I had had another brother who passed away when we were in Waimate. I'm the oldest... the bossiest...

[laughter]

... as my two brothers would tell you.

Kay: And how did you first hear about the Town Hall dances? How old were you when you first started going?

05:08

Alison: Oh, probably 16. Yes, because prior to that we'd had Sunday School, not Sunday School, Bible class dances... through all the different churches. So the boys would pay 1 and 6, and the girls took a plate. [laughter]

Kay: Well, that's fair.

[laughter]

Alison: Yeah. And we went to St John's, and Maori Hill, Roslyn, all over the place.

Kay: And was that sort of ballroom dancing, was it?

Alison: Yes, it was. And then, as we got a bit older we started going to the Town Hall dance.

Kay: Right. So, did you learn to do the dancing at school, or did they teach you at the Sunday School dances?

Alison: No, I think we just learnt it at the Bible class dances, yes. We may have had dance lessons at school, but I don't recall that.

Kay: But certainly it was... part of your growing up was learning to dance.

06:08

Alison: Ah, yes, yes, yeah. Yes, especially the waltz and the quick step, and the... some were more popular than others. We liked the ones where we changed partners, so we had... [laughs] we had different partners. I think that was called the Canadian Schotissche, I'm not sure. Then we had another one called the Gypsy Tap... and the waltz and the quick-step. And, yeah...

Kay: And were there generally enough boys to go around?

06:48

Alison: Ah, yes... well, there seemed to be. [laughs] It was exciting, going in and seeing all the boys lining up and coming in with... you know, their teddy boy haircuts and their winkle-picker shoes, and... [laughter] and all those sorts of things, with the Brylcream in their hair, glued to their scalps.

Kay: They thought they were the business.

Alison: Yeah.

Kay: So, were you working then, or were you still a student?

Alison: Umm, I was still... no, I think I... I can't remember whether I was... perhaps I was... I must have just left school. Yeah, I don't think I would have been allowed to have gone if I hadn't been working. Yes, we were all working. But we were only young. We were 16, yeah.

07:28

Kay: How did you get there?

Alison: On the bus. Yeah, we caught the bus. And then Mum would meet me off the last bus and walk me up the track and around to our place.

Kay: What time did you... did they start and finish?

07:48

Alison: Well, I can't remember, but they must have started... 7.30 perhaps. Yes, and would have finished about 10. Yes, I don't think they would have... 10 or 11. I don't think they went until midnight. 

Kay: No. So you had enough time... to get the last bus home, or whatever. So it's still a long time to be dancing, though, isn't it?

Alison: Ah, yes, it was good fun.

Kay: Yeah. So, as you said, you attended dance lessons when you were younger, did you carry on when you were older? Or once you got the hang of it that was that?

Alison: No, that was that.

Kay: So you didn't have sort of new dances coming in every now and then that you all got together and learnt?

08:28

Alison: We did as a group. You know, a group of women... a group of girls. You know, we used to practice doing the hula hoop, and... how far can you go, you know, what was that called? Where they had a stick.

Kay: Oh, the limbo!

Alison: The limbo, yes.

Kay: So where would you go to do that?

Alison: We just did it at the nurses' home.

Kay: Ah, you were a nursing student by then?

Alison: Yes. And we practiced at the dance... at the Town Hall dance.

09:08

Kay: Good fun.

Alison: Yes, it was. And Chubby Checker... you know, with the Twist.

Jill: So, while you were a nursing student, so you were all living at the same home together?

Alison: Yes.

Jill: Yeah, so how much time...  would you have finished your studies at, say, five o'clock and you'd have the night free to kind of practice your dancing, and...?

Alison: Umm, well we worked in prelim for the first three months, and that was just studies. And after the first three months we were put onto a ward, but we worked six days a week.

Kay: Oh, gosh, right.

Alison: Yes. So we had one day off a week.

Kay: So you had to make the most of enjoying yourself on that one day. And was that a Saturday?

10:08

Alison: No, we were rostered. Yes. So sometimes... you know, not everyone would be able to go. So we'd have different people going at different times. One girl had a 1953 Prefect, and nine of us could fit into that car!

[laughter]

Kay: Nine? With all your dresses!

Alison: We were all tiny of course.

Kay: Of course!

[laughter]

Kay: So you were in Balclutha? And you'd drive up from Balclutha?

Alison: Yes, up from Balclutha. And one friend had a 1957 Customline Ford that her parents had given her. This huge, big car that had a V8 engine.

Jill: Just imagine the talking on the way back, how exciting that would be!

Kay: And how stylish were you, in your elegant gowns, going off to the dance!

Alison: Yeah, and our class was called The Beatles. Because it was at the time when the Beatles started singing.

Kay: Do you remember when they came, when they visited Dunedin?

Alison: I do remember, but I didn't, umm...

Kay: Didn't get to go?

Alison: No, we... that was very expensive to go to... and we were very poorly paid.

11:28

Kay: So the dances themselves weren't expensive to go to?

Alison: No, and I can't remember how much it was. It might have been a shilling, or...

Kay: But it was affordable?

Alison: Ah, yes. Yes, it was. And probably our parents would have helped anyway, you know if need be. But it was great fun.

Kay: Did your parents go to the dances before you? Did they sort of pass down... you know, you should go, 'cause it's great. We used to go...?

12:08

Alison: Well, they didn't... 'cause they didn't grow up here. They grew up in Waimate. But Mum went to a lot of dances. They had a lot of country dances in Waimate. And I know Mum... they must have had a big sort of a kitchen area, dining-kitchen area on the farm, because she said at the end of the harvest they... the Māori from down at the marae, on the Waihao, they would bring their guitars and they would actually pull up the whole carpet, and they would have a dance in the house.

Kay: How wonderful! Great times!

12:48

Alison: Yes, so she did that. I don't think Dad did. Dad was a much more reserved person, and of course he'd been at the War for five years, so he had a very different life.

Kay: Yes. He liked it quiet, probably. So, you were talking earlier about how you went to the dances with a group of friends... did you get ready together, or... you know, how did...?

13:28

Alison: Oh, yes we did. Oh, yes. You know, we'd be titivating ourselves, and someone else would be tidying up the back of your hair, and giving it a clip and... and, ah... it was in the days when quite a few people had perms.

Kay: Ah, yes. Did they go to the hairdressers to get it done?

Alison: Oh, yes, yeah.

Kay: And did you have your beehives as well?

Alison: Yeah, yes we did. Yes, there was a woman in Balclutha, and she was very good at doing the beehives.

Kay: I bet she was busy on a Saturday... or a Friday. Was it Friday or Saturday?

14:08

Alison: I think it was Saturday, yes. Harry Strang's was theFriday, but I think that came later.

Kay: Ok. And Harry Strang was at South Dunedin, wasn't he?

Alison: Yeah. In the South Dunedin Town Hall, yes. Yeah, the girl's were all... it was just so exciting, because you didn't know who you were going to meet. The boys were all... you know, they'd all be standing there in a line.

Kay: So, did you have your favourites? Did you have sort of... people that you hoped to see there, or did it not matter, you just...?

Alison: Ah, well... no... do you mean boyfriends, or...?

Kay: Yeah. Or just people youl liked to dance with, not necessarily boyfriends, but really good dancers maybe.

Alison: Ah, no. No, you didn't, because you... for the Rock 'n Roll you usually danced with your girlfriends. Yes, you didn't really dance with the men.

Kay: And that was your favourite, was it, the Rock and Roll?

Alison: It was, yes, I loved all that.  [laughs]

Kay: Did you ever go into the Town Hall for the ballroom dancing?

Alison: Ah, yes.

Kay: Oh, you did that as well?

Alison: Oh, yes, did that as well.

Kay: You must have been exhausted by the end of the night!

Alison: Well, yes, I suppose we were. Yeah, I suppose we were.

Jill: Just gotta make the most of it, you see!

Alison: Yeah, well yes, and you're so young. And it was so exciting. Yeah, it was just so exciting.

15:28

Kay: Well, tell me about the dresses. What were the dresses like?

Alison: Umm, the dresses were pretty. Yes, they were pretty dresses. And they were... so you had a waist, and you had a belt around the waist. And then there were the stiff petticoats to, you know, push the dresses out. And you always wore stockings. Pantyhose weren't in, in those days.

Kay: Right. So was this the 50s or 60s? 60's was it?

Alison: Yes, early 60s. And, yeah nothing revealing. Little high-necked collars, and

Kay: So quite demure?

Alison: Ah, yes, they were lovely. And little flowery patterns, and...

Kay: And what were the shoes like? They wouldn't have been...

Alison: Oh, they were gorgeous. They were little slip-ons.

Kay: And quite comfortable, I imagine, if you're going to dance.

Alison: Oh, very comfortable, yes, very comfortable. And yeah, different colours. Quite a lot of us had white... little white slip-ons.

Kay: Did you wear gloves?

Alison: No... no... I don't recall that. We did for the balls. You know, when we went to the balls we had on the long gloves. And then you could when you were eating, you could take that down and then tuck it in under the piece that came down to the wrist, and there were buttons, two or three buttons that allowed that to, umm...

Kay: Ah, that's a good idea.

Alison: Yeah. And shifts were in... those little shift dresses.

17:28

Kay: Did you make your own clothes, or did you...?

Alison: I made one dress. It was for another dance. And, ah, it had an iron-on... like a lining, to stiffen the... and I think it was polished cotton, and it stiffened the fabric, so it came out a wee bit. It had sleeves to below the elbow. And I got into a bit of bother with the... it wouldn't do up at the side, so I had to pin it up with safety pins.

[laughter]

Kay: But you had a go.

Alison: I had a go. It was the one and only I think, yeah one and only go.

18:08

Kay: Did you borrow clothes as well? Did you swap?

Alison: Not really, no.

Kay: So there wasn't a sense that you had to wear something different every time?

Alison: No, no, no. Because we... well, we couldn't afford it. You know, we were so... you know, I think we got about... what was it? I think we got about £7 a fortnight.

Kay: Oh, crumbs! Wow, yeah. And you had to make that last.

Alison: We had to make it last, yes. So, umm... yeah, I can't...

Kay: So you lived sustainably.[laughs]

Alison: Yeah, we did. And we had cardigans. Yeah, so we'd have a little cardigan. Little white, or...

Kay: So you probably wore the same dress, but you could change the accessories, or the... yes.

Alison: Yes, yeah. Yes, it was good fun, yeah.

19:08

Kay: So how did you keep up with all the different music? Did you... so you knew what was coming, did you listen to the radio?

Alison: Oh, yes, we listened to the radio. And there was a programme... on, I think it was Friday nights, and I can't remember the guy's name, but it was a pop... a pop programme. And he'd have different bands on... ah, people playing.

Kay: So, live bands?

Alison: Yes. Ah, I can't remember... he was very popular.

Kay: So you got used to the music of the day, and you'd...?

Alison: Oh, yeah. And we'd dance at the nurses home... we'd dance, and we had record players of course, you know. And it was in the days when Pat Boone... you know, he was popular. And Jim Reeves, Louis Armstrong... and the Beatles of course. Those other bands Jerry Lee Lewis.

Kay: So you'd be quite polished by the time you got to go to the dance. You'd had plenty of practice. [laughter] Tell us about the atmosphere. What was it liked when you walked in the door at the Town Hall? You know, how did they deck it out? What did they do to make it special?

20:28

Alison: Well, I don't think there was a lot done. I think it was quite bland.

Kay: Was it brightly lit, or... quite dark, or...?

Alison: Yes, it was quite brightly lit, yes. It wasn't like the South Dunedin one, where they had the big ball... you know the...

Kay: Oh, they had a glitter ball, did they?

Alison: Yes, they had a... yes, so there was nothing like that that I remember at the Town Hall.

Kay: But what about the Rock and Roll area, was that sort of...?

Alison: That was lit up too. Yes, that was lit up. And there was, you know, everyone was very well-behaved. And if any of the boys had been drinking, and tried to get in, they wouldn't be allowed in.

Kay: Ah, so it was very carefully...

Alison: Yes, it was.

Kay: So your parents knew that it was a safe place for you to go.

Alison: That's right. Yes, that's right.

Kay: Was it packed? You know, was it really full?

Alison: Oh, there was a lot of people there. I don't know how many hundreds of people that were there.

Kay: So it was a real party atmosphere?

Alison: Oh, yes it was. It was so exciting, and, you know just to see everyone dressed up, and... you know, we'd be giggling, and being silly. And if you were asked for a dance and you refused, then you weren't allowed to accept a dance from anyone else for that particular dance.

Kay: Oh, well I suppose that's nice in a way, 'cause it would mean you didn't have to worry about rejection. Everyone got a chance.

Alison: It was nice, yes.

Kay: That's nice. So did you have dance cards?

Alison: No, we didn't. No, we didn't have dance cards, but... yeah.

Kay: But they just kept an eye on things and they knew if you'd turned someone down?

Alison: Yes, well you knew that yourself. You wouldn't do that.

Kay: Ah, so the etiquette was... that that's what you did.

Alison: Yes. Because you were hurting the person, being... you know, rude really, in a way, getting up with someone else.

Kay: Exactly. Yes, it's bad form. Well, that's lovely, isn't it? I like that idea. It's a shame they don't do that now.

Alison: It is, isn't it?

Kay: So did everyone arrive when it started at 7.30, or did they come in groups later, you know in groups throughout the evening, or how did it work?

Alison: Most people arrived... but people that had had a few drinks, I think some of the boys they would come a bit later. And we wouldn't always arrive on time, because... you know, we had to come up from 'Clutha.

Kay: Yes, of course. So it was all in full swing by the time you got there. Did they used to queue outside to get in?

Alison: No, I don't recall queueing, no, but there may have been.

23:28

Kay: And what do you remember about the music? They must have had two bands, 'cause they had the Rock and Roll one side and the ballroom on the other.

Alison: Oh, the music was just amazing.

Kay: Yeah? Do you remember what any of the bands were called?

Alison: The two boys that lived opposite us, they had a... they were singers, and they were called the Cadons. And my brother recently found one of their records in amongst our... and took it along to the Hocken.

Kay: Oh, so they made a record! Cool. Fantastic!

Alison: Yeah, the Cadons. And then there was another group. I can't remember their names.

Kay: So they would play... did they play every week, or did they change it up and have different bands playing?

Alison: I think in the Town Hall they had the same band each week. But I don't know about the Rock 'n Roll, no.

Kay: Did you have a favourite?

Alison: Oh, yeah I love Rock 'n Roll, yeah.

[laughter]

Kay: So that was your place to be.

Alison: Oh yes, it was good fun.

24:48

Kay: What was your favourite dance?

Alison: I liked the twist in that room. But I liked the one where we changed partners. I think it was called the Canadian Schotissche, but it may have been called the Gypsy Tap, I don't know. Either one or the other. And it was fun... you know, because the boys went one way and the girls when the other, and so you only had about a minute or two minutes with each person. And you'd always be looking, you know, I wonder who's gonna be next.

[laughter]

Jill: So with the Rock 'n Roll dancing, it wasn't the dancing where you're sort of being thrown around by...

Alison: Ah, well some people did, yes. Yeah, some people did. Yeah, there were some really good dancers. And quite a few of the girls that learned ballet and Scottish dancing, they were very good.

Kay: Good rhythm, yeah.

Alison: Yes, and light. And they just had a knack. They were just natural dancers.

26:08

Kay: So you said you used to dance with the girls, mainly, at the Rock and Roll, but there would have been partners as well?

Alison: Yes, we did. Oh, yes, yes... but not as, umm... yeah, I don't know whether perhaps the boys didn't enjoy the Rock 'n Roll as much, I don't know. Or they might have felt uncomfortable, you know, doing that dance.

Kay: Yeah, they liked the sort of rules of the ballroom dance.

Alison: Mmm, and they could hold you a bit closer.

Kay: Well, there is that, yes. So when you were waiting to have a dance, did the men stay on one side and the women on the other?

Alison: Oh, yes.

Kay: And do you remember seeing them coming towards you and asking you to dance?

Alison: Oh, yes, and they'd have the talcum powder sprinkled on the floor, and then the boys would literally skid across to where the girls were standing, and they'd have to put the brakes on!

Kay: Oh, gosh. So they'd be showing off by sliding across to you?

Alison: Yeah, that's right. And they were the ones I didn't like, 'cause they were so pushy.

Kay: Ah, so you knew who to dance with, yeah?

Alison: Yeah, just wanted to have a dance with you and yeah.

27:08

Kay: Do you know any of your friends who met their future partners at the dances?

Alison: I'm sure there were a lot... I'm sure there were a lot of people, because there was nothing else to do.

Jill: Responsible for a lot of families, yeah.

Alison: Yeah, and it's a great shame that they don't have something like that now, because it's so difficult for young people to meet now.

Kay: Yes, it is. Yeah, and that's an easy, safe way to do it, isn't it?

Alison: It is.

Kay: Perhaps we should petition to have them back again.

[laughter]

Alison: Yeah.

Kay: Do you remember were there any refreshments, or anything like that? Did they serve food and drink?

Alison: I don't remember that, but there probably was supper... so there would have been a cup of tea.

Kay: 'Cause it's a long time otherwise, isn't it?

Alison: Yes. There would have been a cup of tea, I suppose, like the Bible class dances. A cup of tea and a scone or something.

28:28

Kay: Yes, to keep you going, keep the energy levels up. Do you remember the very last one at the Town hall, the final Town Hall dance?

Alison: No, I don't, no. I don't remember what year it finished, when it stopped.

Kay: When was the last one you went to?

Alison: Oh, golly... about... I'm not sure... in the... would have been the late '60s.

Kay: So you were going for probably almost 10 years.

29:08

Alison: 10 years, yes. Yes, and if someone... well, on two or three occasions, they would arrive at my place, you know and I would introduce them to Mumand Dad, and of course I had no interest at all in them, and it used to be so uncomfortable... because they'd be interested in you, and... because everyone was out really, wanting to find a partner, because we were all of that age. And if you didn't have a partner by a certain age, then you were sort of... not left on the shelf, but yeah. So all of my nursing class would have been married by the time they were 23, and my school class.

Kay: Oh, gosh!

Alison: Yes.

30:08

Kay: So did you stop going when you got married? Is that why you stopped going?

Alison: No, no because I shifted. I shifted back to Balclutha.

Kay: Right, yeah. Did you go to dances in Balclutha?

Alison: Yes, we did, but nothing like the Town Hall dance.

Kay: Where did they have those down in Balclutha?

Alison: They had them in the Town Hall, in the area there. And they had the balls. Some of the balls there, and then the others were in  woolsheds.

Kay: Oh, fun.

Alison: So they did up all the woolsheds with pea straw to sit on, and all that sort of thing.

Kay: Yeah, and were they local bands that played?

Alison: Yes, they were. Yes. Ah, yes, they were good fund. And of course we all got dollied up for that.

Kay: Ah, yes, so it was no different really? It was just at a different place.

Alison: But we all wore long dresses for the balls, and gloves.

Kay: Yes. So it was very grand?

Alison: Oh, yes it was. We'd come up to Dunedin and try on the ball dresses.

Kay: So did you hire them?

Alison: No. We bought them.

Kay: Oh you bought them?

Alison: Yes, we bought them, yes.

Kay: So you had a wardrobe full of ball dresses?

Alison: Well, we had one or two. I think I only had one, yeah.

Kay: But again, it didn't matter if you wore the same dress?

Alison: No, it didn't. No. No.

Kay: You were there for the dancing rather than anything else?

Alison: Yes, we were. And for some of the balls, well for the nurses ball, we would ask the man to be our partner, but they would ask us for the Deerstalkers and you know, the other balls that were around. And some of the smaller farming areas had balls... had the woolshed dances.

Kay: So it was the done thing to go with a partner to those, rather than go on your own?

Alison: Ah yes, you always had to go with a partner.

[laughter]

Kay: So when the Town Hall dances stopped... I suppose you stopped before they finished though, didn't you?

Alison: Yes, yes.

Kay: But do you remember when the dances generally stopped... what came after... what did they do then? It must have been a bit of a...

Alison: I don't know. I think Harry Strang's... well, I know Harry Strang's went on for a lot longer. Yes, and I'm not sure whether they continued with the Friday night or whether they changed to the Saturday night.

Kay: To fill the gap?

Alison: Yes.

Kay: Yeah, so you still travelled up to go to those, did you?

Alison: No, 'cause I got married. But no, we didn't as a married couple, no.

Kay: Was it usually done that married couples would go, or was it really just a sort of singles thing?

Alison: No, a lot of married couples went, but we had other things, you see, in Balclutha. And... you know, so we didn't bother going.

Kay: Didn't need to.

33:08

Alison: No. And I think because there was 6 o'clock closing...

Kay: Oh, I'd forgotten about that, yes!

Alison: That was one of the reasons that everyone went to the Town Hall dance, because what else was there to do?

Kay: So they really did fill a gap in the social scene.

33:48

Alison: Oh, it was huge! And Joe Brown, he was a real entrepreneur. You know, he had the Winter Show, you know, down in Crawford Street.

Kay: Right. What was that? What was involved in that?

Alison: Well, they had live animals.

Kay: Oooh, right like a circus?

Alison: In pens. It was like an A&P show, agricultural and pastoral show.

Kay: Ok, where was that?

Alison: It was in Crawford Street.

Jill: So Sammy's.

Kay: Oh there, the Agricultural Hall.

Alison: Yeah. And so we'd go there as a family. Well, not Dad, because he'd be working. But we'd go there, and they had a community sing during the school holidays.

Kay: Oh, I've read about those, yes.

Alison: Yeah, so we had our little song books. And Mum really enjoyed singing. So we'd go there, and we'd sing "The Happy Wanderer" and all those old songs.

Kay: And was that at the Agricultural Hall?

Alison: Yes, that was at the Agricultural Hall. So Joe Brown ran all those sorts of things.

Kay: So he dedicated quite a lot of time to community-minded events that he organised.

Alison: He did, didn't he? Yes. And the A&P show was... ah, it was it was amazing, seeing all the animals, and all the produce that the farming people... the wool and...

Kay: Yeah. So, did they have an A&P show in Dunedin?

Alison: Yes.

Kay: Wow! 'Cause they don't do that now, do they?

Alison: No. No.

Kay: It tends to be a country thing, doesn't it?

Alison: Yes, it does. I can't remember where the actual big one was.

Kay: So it was an outside venue presumably, somewhere?

Alison: Well, yeah, but they had a lot of the animals inside.

Jill: 'Cause it must have gone through until the '70s 'cause I remember going to those.

Alison: Yeah.

Jill: And I always thought it was weird that these animals were inside. Cows and sheep and...

Alison: Yes, they were, weren't they?

Kay: But in the middle of a city?

Alison: Yes, in the middle of... in Crawford Street! Yes and they had pet lambs, and all sorts, didn't they?

Kay: I think it's brilliant though, that they bring the country to the city. 'Cause there are a lot of people who live in town who don't get to see them.

Jill: Yeah, we wouldn't have seen them, so...

Alison: No, we wouldn't have. No, well, we had an aunt and uncle that we spent holidays with on a farm, but... yes.

Kay: But not all families do.

36:28

Alison: No. And I don't know if they... do they still have one out on the Taieri?

Kay: Yes, they still have the country ones. Taieri and Strath Taieri. And most small country towns will have an A&P show.

Alison: Yes, they do.

Kay: Yeah. But not in town, although Christchurch has one, doesn't it? They have a big A&P show. I don't know if they call it an A&P.

Alison: Yes, they do.

Jill: And Hamilton will have the... field...

Kay: Field Days, yes.

Alison: Ah, yes, Mystery Creek.

Jill: That's right.

Alison: Yes, and then they have one in Gore, don't they? A big one in Gore, but I can't remember the... ah, what's the one in Gore? I can't remember.

Kay: But yeah, it's been a long time since they had one in Dunedin.

Alison: Yes.

37:07

Kay: After all of this, what is your fondest memory of the dances? What do you carry away with you when you think about them?

Alison: What do I think? Ah, all the fun we had, and it was so innocent, and we were...yeah. We were all there for the same thing, just to dance and enjoy ourselves. Yeah. Just the happiness it brought, really.

Kay: Great times.

Alison: It was. It was a really happy time. And no-one was rude, or anything like that. [chuckles]

Kay: Good manners, good times.

Alison: Yes.

Kay: And I suppose after the austerity of sort of post-war years, it just must have been... just that release and...

38:27

Alison: Yes. I think... yes. And it was good fun, I mean. You know, our parents were brought up in that, umm... at the end of the Victorian era, you know. I mean, my mother was... she loved... she loved a party. She loved... you know, all that sort of dance, and... yeah. And she loved entertaining at home. And... you know, she was great. She was great.

Jill: That's probably why she came and met you at the bus, isn't it?

Kay: She wanted to know what you'd been up to.

[laughter]

Jill: Yeah, enjoying it vicariously through you.

Kay: Yeah, she probably missed going herself, and wanted to know...

Alison: Yes, I think she did. I think she did. Because Dad was so serious, and... not well... not well for a lot of our childhood.

Kay: Because of the War. Mmm.

Alison: Yes.

Kay: But yeah, that's great.

Alison: Yes, I've really enjoyed talking about it.

Kay: Oh, good.

Alison: You know, it brought back memories of all the fun we used to have there.

Kay: Fantastic. Ah, well thank you so much for talking to us about that. Lovely to hear the stories.

[recording ends]