Transcript of interview with Zelda Matheson for the Dunedin Dance Halls project

Zelda Matheson recalls the Dunedin Dance Hall days, including attending the Joe Brown dances at the Dunedin Town Hall, the St Kilda and South Dunedin dances, and the many country balls and social gatherings she performed at, playing piano in the Maungatua Ramblers with her husband Athol, her father, and their family friend Allan.

Abstract

00:00    Recording identification and introduction

00:41    Zelda talks about her childhood in West Otago and later at Maungatua

02:01    First jobs in Broadcasting and boarding/flatting in Dunedin; Garrison Hall, Burns Hall and the              Commerce Building; YWCA

04:20    Zelda marries, returns to the Taieri and starts working for National Airways from the day it opened in 1966

05:20    Having children and working at the Momona Cheese Factory; the factory moves to Dunedin,          and Zelda joins Fulton Hogan;  homeless after the Taeri Floods in the 1980's, selling the farm        and moving to Fairfield

07:10    Zelda's early memories of the Joe Brown dances - choice of rock and roll or modern at the            Dunedin Town Hall

08:30    Going home on the Workers' Bus; playing hockey on Saturday mornings in Dunedin

10:30    Other dances around Dunedin - South Dunedin, St Johns; Harry Strang, Bill Norris, the Merry      Macks

12:10    Going to the dances with her future husband, Athol; sometimes going with a group of     girlfriends; which nights each of the dances were held and where

13:10    Dances were the place to meet people, including future spouses

13:30    Zelda recalls the music of the dance halls and the dance styles

14:10    Country balls and dances around the Taieri area; learning to dance at school

16:10    Special Christmas and New Year dances at Berwick and Waihola

16:50    Bands who played the Taieri dances; Zelda's own band, the Maungatua Ramblers, with her dad and her husband, Athol, and their friend Allan; Berwick Poppy Dance

19:10    Learning to dance at school, and the importance of it as a social skill for country people

19:30    Alcohol-free policy at the dances, and Zelda recalls men popping out to sneak a drink        outside

19:50    Dance etiquette - the men did the asking; the Canadian Schottische to showcase potential    partners

22:30    Zelda recalls many of her friends met their future spouses at the dances

23:10    Zelda says the Momona dance was the place to go; farming calendar determined when         dances were held

24:10    Dressing for the dances - mum made Zelda's dresses; shopping for material - The Silk and   Frock Shop on George Street, Dunedin; Tate's Fabric in South Dunedin; matching tie for the      gentleman

27:30    Zelda's colleagues in the typing pool at the Broadcasting office - talking about the latest fashions, gossiping about who danced with who at the last dance; DIC and Brown Ewings

29:50    Zelda recalls playing hockey for the Momona Club in Dunedin; playing tennis at Berwick

30:30    Zelda describes the flatting arrangements with a group of girls in Dunedin

31:30    Zelda recalls when the US Antarctic ship Brough docked at Dunedin and that the Navy boys would go to the dances when on shore leave

32:30    Getting her hair done for the dances - the beehive, sleeping in big rollers

32:30    Zelda remembers the atmosphere of the dances and decorating the halls for various        functions; the glitterball at South Dunedin Town Hall

35:03    Zelda recalls the Maungatua Ramblers - how they formed the band; Zelda played piano

36:23    Zelda remembers her husband Athol bought a drum kit and taught himself to play; keeping               the tempo for the dances; all village halls had a piano

39:43    Zelda describes how the Joe Brown dances were broadcast on the radio, and how her family            heard over the radio that she had won the prize for the Monte Carlo game; describes how the game works and how she beat Athol to take the win

44:43    Zelda's memories of Joe Brown

45:03    Zelda remembers attending the Town Hall dance reunion in 2005

45:43    The social scene in Dunedin after the Town Hall dances ended; the Manhatten Lounge in     Moray Place; country dances continued as always - lots of wedding dances

48:03    Zelda's fondest memories of the dance hall days - Athol and Zelda often the first to get up and dance to break the ice; everyone knowing all the dance steps to the various dances; a               great place to meet people

51:25    Square dancing at Berwick, Henley,  Momona or Outram

51:45    Zelda remembers the last dance was almost always a waltz at the dances; linking arms and              singing Auld Lang Syne at the end of every dance at the      Town Hall and elsewhere

53:06    Stopping at the pie cart for "Pea, Pie and Pud" on the way home from the dance; cafe bars -         the Little Hut - Ted Patterson ran the cafe

55:50    Arthur Barnett's tearooms; the Savoy; Margaret Morrison's tearooms popular with people   visiting dunedin from the country

________________________________________________________________________

00:00

Recording identification. This is an interview with Zelda Matheson on 6th September, 2022, and the interview started at 2pm. The interview is for the Dunedin Public Libraries' He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds digital archive Dance Halls oral history project. The interviewers are Kay Mercer and Jill Bowie. The interview is being held at Zelda's home in Fairfield near Dunedin. It is recorded on a Zoom H5 Digital Recorder, using Countryman Isomax clip-on microphones.

00:41

Kay: So, Zelda, thank you so much for having us today. It's really wonderful for you to invite us to your home to talk about the dance hall days. Can you, before we start, tell us a wee bit about yourself?

Zelda: Ok. I was born in Gore. And then my family moved from... we lived at a little place called Waikoikoi, which is between Tapanui and Pukerau in West Otago. And then we moved to Maungatua when I was 11. And I went to the Outram School. And I had four brothers. I was the oldest. And we lived four miles from Outram, so if you wanted to go to things in Outram, and your father was away working, the only way you got there was to get on your bike and bike. And in those days it was a gravel road, and sometimes the wind would be going all the wrong way when we were biking home, so it was quite a challenge. I went to Taieri High School, or Mosgiel District High School and then it changed to Taieri High School. And I had four years at high school. And I was I liked to play sport, and I was in the Girl Guides, and I went to Sunday School, and bible class.

02:01

And then from school days I went to town, and because my family lived at Maungatua I had to flat or board in town. So I got a job at New Zealand Broadcasting Services, as a shorthand typist. And that was in Dowling Street in the Garrison Hall. So that was an interesting place to be. Lots of history prior to broadcasting being there. And then I worked... from Garrison Hall I went to Burns Hall, which was across the road, and that was the recording studio. So I was the secretary over there. And from there I went to the talk studio, which was in the Commerce Building, which was at the bottom of Dowling Street. So in that little triangle was the different places I worked. And... from... I started off boarding at the YWCA, and I was in a room with two other girls. And then we decided after we'd been about nine months there, we'd go flatting.

Kay: Where was the YWCA?

Zelda: It was in Moray Place, where the Moray Motels are now. And, 'cause that was really nice and handy. And of course the Library was directly across the road, which was even better, 'cause I liked to read a book, and that was a good place to be.

Kay: Ah right, yes, in the Carnegie building. And my husband's auntie had a cake shop, which was just down the road in Moray Place, and so that was always interesting. When I walked home from work, I'd pop in there and get some delicious, delightful, delectable cake, that she might have there. So that was good. And so we went flatting down George Street in a house with six other girls, which was an education in itself.

04:20

And I flatted there for four years, and then got married and moved back to the Taieri again. And then we lived on my parents-in-law's farm. My husband was an engineer and he had his workshop on the farm. And so then I worked for National Airways. And that was the start of... I was there the day it opened in 1966. It was May 1966.

Kay: 1966. Was that at Momona?

Zelda: At Momona, mmm. So there I was girl Friday. I worked the teleprinter. I was on the traffic counter. I was the typist. So it was a bit of everything really. So I worked there for four years, and then I had two children.

05:20

Then, after they were about high school age, no before that... they were maybe standard four, five, six, in that era somewhere, I worked briefly at the cheese factory at Momona, wrapping cheese. And then I thought, ah... they shut down the cheese-factory wrapping at Momona, and it went to town. And we were at the dairy factory, down about where the stadium is now, somewhere in there. And wrapping cheese, and I hated it. I thought, "I'm getting out of here". So then I applied for a job at Fulton Hogan, and then the flood came. And while they were deliberating about who was going to get the job at Fulton Hogan, our farm and house and everything was flooded. And we ended up in two caravans at my brother's place at Maungatua. And they were trying to find me to tell me I had the job. And I was to start in two weeks. Well, we were still living in caravans so I went to Fulton Hogan, and the first week I thought, "I'm never going to survive this." But however, I did survive, and I stayed there for 35 years.

Kay: Mmm, and were they always at Fairfield?

Zelda: Always at Fairfield, yes. And in 1987, my husband had a series of illnesses, and he truly was an engineer more than he was a farmer and so we sold the farm and moved to Fairfield. And I've been here ever since, so there we are.

07:10

Kay: So, let's go back in time. How old were you when you first heard about the Joe Brown dances? Did you go to the Joe Brown dances?

Zelda: Yes, I did go to the Joe Brown dances, yeah. Everybody knew about the Joe Brown dances. I mean, that was the place to go. You know, it was a Saturday night, so you that's... often, if you didn't have other things to do, you would go to the Joe Brown dance. And, you know, that was the era when rock and roll was in it's prime, so you could choose whether you wanted to be in the modern dance hall, or you could go through the little passageway into the concert chamber to the rock and roll. And of course that was different music as well.

Kay: So how old were you when you first started going?

Zelda: 16 maybe?

Kay: So, before you got married.

Zelda: Yes, yes. And my boyfriend at the time ended up to be my husband. So he... and he was five years older than me, so you know, he was 21 and I was 16. So he had wheels.  

[laughter]

Kay: Ahh. Did you meet at the dance?

Zelda: No, we met at Maungatua playing table tennis.

[laughter]

Kay: Ah, nice. But you used to go to the dance together?

08:30

Zelda: Yes, so often we could go. But then sometimes, 'cause I was flatting in town during the week, I went home at the weekend on the workers' bus. And then came back to town on the Saturday to play hockey, with the help of Athol. He would probably take me back out to the Taieri again. So, then we'd be, you know, "Where are we gonna go tonight?" So it could have been the movies, or it could have been our local dance, or it could have been the Town Hall dance, you know, so... And of course, when I was at broadcasting, 4YA, maybe, they used to broadcast the Town Hall dance, you know, so up above the stage was a little window where the technicians used to sit. And of course I knew the technicians, so sometimes we could go up and look at the dancers from up there, you know? So that was always good. And then, when I worked at NAC, one of the guys I worked with was a vocalist at the Town Hall. He's since passed on, but... and his name was Tom Jones.

[laughter]

Kay: Ah, fancy that! Tom Jones sang at the Town Hall dances. So did he sing for a particular band or just really sort of freelance?

Zelda: I want to say Harry Strang.

Kay: Oh, right, ok.

Zelda: Yeah, Tom Jones... have I got that right? I might have to think about that. Tom... I think it was Tom Jones. Anyway... I'll check that out. Yeah, so how did we get sidetracked? [laughter] Yeah, so I went... yes, I did go to the Town Hall dances, and everybody did know about the Town Hall dance.

Kay: So that would be in the 60s if the rock and roll was going by then, was it?

10:30

Zelda: Yes, well we probably started... I went to work in 1958, so from then on 'til... you know, we didn't go every Saturday night, but there were lots of other dance places as well. You could either go to South Dunedin, which... there was a great place to dance as well.

Kay: Mmm, and Harry Strang played there, too, didn't he?

Zelda: Harry Strang played there. So did Bill Norris. So did... I want to say the Merry Macks were in that mix as well. Not sure that they were at that one perhaps. And then you could go to St Johns, which was in Moray Place.

Kay: Right. Ah yes, so it was in Moray Place. So this is something we've been trying to establish. So the St Kilda, or the South Dunedin one...

Zelda: South Dunedin.

Kay: Whereabouts geographically was that? 'Cause we've heard it was in the Town Hall.

Zelda: Yes, it was. That's where we went.

Kay: Right. And some people have said it's still there, and some people have said it was demolished, so...

Zelda: I think it's still there, but I don't... you know.

Kay: Right, ok. Do you know what road it was in?

Zelda: It was on the main drag through... was that King Edward Street, is it?

Kay: Right, ok. Yes. That's... right, yes we've heard that from someone. So we need to go and have a look.

Zelda: Yeah, that big Town Hall. That big Town Hall's still there. Well, in my thoughts it is. Yeah.

Jill: So the St John's dance. So you say Moray Place. It wasn't in the... where the ambulance station is now?

Kay: Which is on York Place.

Jill: York Place, yeah.

Zelda: Ah, York Place, yes it was York Place. Yes.

Kay: So that hasn't changed, so that's there.

Jill: And was it upstairs or downstairs? 'Cause my mother thought it was upstairs, and then someone else said it was down.

Zelda: No, I can't remember that. Whether we went upstairs or not. But that's... and you could go on a Thursday night there.

12:10

So you know, sometimes if I was in town and with the girls from the flat, and we'd leave Athol out of it. [laughs]

Kay: Ah, right, so sometimes you went as a couple, and sometimes you went with your mates.

Zelda: Yeah, if it was during the week I'd do... [laughs]

Jill: So then, so they were on a Thursday night. The St Kilda one, was that on a Friday as well, or...?

Zelda: Well, I was just talking to my neighbour, and she said Friday night. And I said, "I'm sure I went to St Kilda on a Thursday night." But it could have been Friday night as well.

Kay: Ah, but it didn't clash with the Town Hall dance.

Zelda: It was on a Saturday night as well. So you could go to whichever you wanted.

Kay: Ah, right, ok. Ah, so you could go to either. So there must have been enough interest for there to be an audience for all of these.

13:10

Zelda: Ah, yeah there was, you know, 'cause that's where you went. That's where you met people, you know. You met your partners, your boyfriends, your husband. Or... you know, it was a meeting place. And the music was great.

Kay: What sort of music do you remember?

13:30

Zelda: Ah... well, of course there was lots of rock and roll type music in those days, even though, you know, and they changed it for whatever the dance they were playing for. Mmm, Pat Boone and those sorts of people were... you know, "Love Letters on the Sand".

Kay: Mmm-hmm, I think that one was on the video.

Jill: It is.

[laughter]

Zelda: That was a good one.

Kay: So, did you do the formal dancing and the rock and roll? Or did you just prefer the rock and roll?

Zelda: No, we probably were more formal dancers, rather than rock and roll, because... you know, as a kid growing up, that's where you learnt to dance, at the local hall, you know? So you were accustomed to doing those dances.

14:10

Kay: Ah, so you just took that knowledge with you, and that skill, and put it on there. So do you remember dances in Outram, and surrounding?

Zelda: Yep.

Kay: So when were they?

Zelda: There were lots of dances all around the Taieri, because every organisation... if it was the Tennis Club, they had a Tennis Dance. It it was the... Bowling Club, they had a dance. If it was... oh, every organisation. Young Farmers... I was a young Country Girl, so we had Country Girl and Young Farmers dances. So there were... every organisation, it was sort of a fund raiser as well as social as well, you know. 'Cause you had to make your own fun in the country.

Kay: Yes, that's right. Still do.

Zelda: You know, so... a lot of... like there were kitchen evenings, and there were wedding dances, and 21sts, and farewell functions, and... people coming into the district got welcomed into the district.

Kay: Oh, how lovely!

Zelda: So there were all those sort of functions going on around... you know, 'cause there was a hall at Momona, one at Henley, one at Berwick, one at Maungatua, two or three in Outram. Wyllies Crossing didn't have one. East Taieri had a hall as well. And then you had the Mosgiel ones, you know. We didn't really go to Mosgiel dances much, because there was enough going on in the lower South Taieri.

Kay: Enough to keep you busy, and you didn't have to travel so far.

Zelda: No, that's right.

Kay: So although they perhaps weren't weekly, there were so many of them for various different reasons, that... there was always something to go to.

16:10

Zelda: No. Yeah, they weren't weekly, but you know by the time the different organisations, you know, slotted their time in... and then there was maybe... you know, at Christmas time, or New Year time, there used to be a dance at Berwick on New Year's Day. There was one at Waihola on... how did it work? New Years Eve was at Waihola, and then New Year's Day was at Berwick, because there was the Berwick Sports, so after the Berwick Sports there was always the Berwick's Dance. After the show there was always... you know, a show dance. You know, so...

Kay: Yeah, it sort of rounded off of other events.

Zelda: Yeah, yeah. We had lots of energy, obviously.

16:50

Kay: That's a great way for the community to get together. Yes, absolutely. So did they have live music for those? Did they have local bands?

Zelda: Yep, yep, they did.

Kay: Do you remember any of the bands that might have played?

Zelda: Yeah... Stuart McLoud had his band. And he played all around the Taieri.

Kay: So he used to travel to each one?

Zelda: Yeah, he lived in Momona.

Kay: Great.

Zelda: But he played all around the area. Ike Wilson was Henley based. Again he played all around the Taieri. We had a band at Maungatua, so we played all around the Taieri as well.

Kay: Ah!

Zelda: So we were just little local bands. And of course there were bigger ones as well. And Mosgiel had bands as well.

Kay: Mmm, so tell me about your band. What did you play in your band?

Zelda: I played the piano. My husband played the drums. My dad played the accordian.

Kay: Ah, lovely.

Zelda: Our friend Allan played the piano accordian. And then if we were playing for a ball, we would probably have two saxes as well. But if it was just for a local function, like there was always a Poppy Dance at Berwick every year, and so... there would be... we'd play... there would be four of us. And we sort of shared that... Sometimes it was Ike Wilson that got the job, or other times it might have been us. And we gave our services for nothing. It was just a freebie to provide you know, the music for that organisation.

Kay: To help with the fundraising, yeah.

Zelda: But there was always a Poppy Dance at Berwick for many, many years.

Kay: Right. And would the Poppy Dance be ANZAC.

Zelda: Yes it was. yeah. So it was ANZAC Day, and then the Poppy Dance was at night, so...

Kay: Yeah, good memories. Did you play rock and roll music as well, or was it mainly...?

Zelda: Yeah, we used to add that to the flavour.

Kay: Yeah, so it was kind of on a par with the Joe Brown dances. It had that sort of flavour to it.

Zelda: Yeah, it was... you know, you played modern and rock and roll.

Kay: And again, everyone knew the dances.

Zelda: Yeah, country kids could dance.

Kay: Yes.

19:10

Zelda: You know, because you went there as little nippers, and aunty or sister or whoever, mum and dad, you know they'd take you up and you'd all learn how to waltz and do all the different things.

Kay: Yeah. So there was no awkwardness? No-one sort of felt  they couldn't dance?

Zelda: No.

Kay: And how did it work, did all the men sit one side, and all the women another side, or...?

19:30

Zelda: All the men sat at the bottom of the hall nearest the door, where they could pop out and have a quiet drink behind the car.

Kay: Ah, right. [laughs] Because there was no drinking in the halls, was there?

Zelda: No, no, no, no. And there shouldn't be any drinking outside the halls either, but they did!

Kay: Oh!

19:50

Zelda: And then yes, so the girls and the ladies all sat around the hall, and the men stood at the end. And then, you know, when they announced the next dance there'd be a bee-line for your favourite partner. The guy would be eye-ing up the girl that he thought was gonna be the belle of the ball.

Kay: And the men did all the asking? They came and asked the ladies?

Zelda: Oh, yes, of course. Yes, so you always felt like a wallflower if you were left sitting with no partner.

[laughter]

Kay: Ahh. Did they have dance cards, or was it not that formal?

Zelda: No, no, you didn't, no. They just had an MC, and he would announce the dance, and "Everbody take your partners!" and away you'd go, so...

Kay: And what was the etiquette? Was it sort of done that you said yes, or...?

Zelda: I don't think anybody ever refused, you know. And they had a dance called the Canadian Schottische.

Kay: Ah, now we've heard this one many times, yeah.

Zelda: Yes, so... you know, where you'd start off with a partner and then they'd say "ok, now it's change partners." So then you got to see all the talent that might be, ah...

Kay: Yeah. Ah, window shopping!

[laughter]

Zelda: Yes. So you met somebody and you thought, "Ah, he's not too bad!" And so then, you know, it might be the next dance he'd be able to invite you for another dance. Yeah, so that's how people met as well.

Kay: And how did you indicate that you would welcome an advance from someone? 'Cause you didn't have fans and things like they used to in the Bronte days. [laughter] There must have been some sort of code or indicators.

Zelda: I don't know. Whether they just... you know, in the, ah... dancing around maybe, they just decided that maybe he could take you home, you know.

Kay: A lingering smile or a long look?

Zelda: Yeah, that's right, yes, you know. And of course everybody sort of had a vehicle in those days, when you lived in the country, so... you know, so you'd get a ride home with some eligible bachelor.

Kay: Yeah. And that was your courtship effectively.

Zelda: Mmm, yeah. So, you know, the next dance that came along, he might be there again, and... you know, then it carried on from there, maybe.

Kay: Added a bit of excitement. [laughs]

Zelda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kay: Do you know many people who met their partners at the dances?

22:30

Zelda: Well, of course, that was the way that you met them. You know, unless you had met them through school. You know, and as you'd grown up and... you were aware... you knew who they were. You know... yeah. Lots of my friends... married... they had the same boyfriend that became their husband. Like, there's probably about four of my friends that had a long relationship from, you know... a 17-year-old to marrying, so...

Kay: Yeah. So you could really get to know people well before you got married.

Zelda: Yeah. Yeah.

Kay: Yeah. It's a good idea, isn't it? And I s'pose being country, people would come from quite long distances, and probably hadn't seen people for a while, and it was a good way to socialise anyway.

23:10

Zelda: The Momona dance was always a very popular one. Like, everybody went to the Momona dance, you know, 'cause that was the place to go, so...

Kay: Right. How many people could they fit in the hall there?

Zelda: Ah, well, I don't think there was any restrictions in those days, so they'd just keep piling them in.

[laughter]

Kay: Yeah, so it was quite crowded?

Zelda: It could be, yes. Yes.

Kay: And I s'pose they had down-time for lambing or calving?

Zelda: Yeah, well probably they didn't perhaps hold functions sort of during that busy period of time, because... and the thing was, being on the Taieri, most farmers were dairy farmers, you know, so...

Kay: Yeah, so it sort of went with the farm clock really, farm calendar, about when would be good to have them.

Zelda: Yes. Yeah.

Kay: And what about what you wore? Did you make your own clothes, or did you buy them?

24:10

Zelda: My mum was my dressmaker. So I would come home from town Friday night on the workers' bus, and I would have under my arm some new material and a pattern, and the cotton, and the zip.

Kay: Ahh. Where did you get those from?

Zelda: There was a place on a good place in town was the silk and frock shop. And they used to have beautiful materials, and...

Kay: Gosh. Where was that?

Zelda: It was in George Street, between Dowling Street and Moray Place. If you were going North, it was on your left hand side, about half-way along that street. I think there's a coffee bar or something sort of across the street from it now. So you've got the big hotel on the corner of Dowling Street. You cross the road, and about half-way up that stretch was where the Silk and Frock shop was.

Jill: 'Cause I think where Disk Den is, I'm sure above, on those verandas, there's still a sign with the fabric store up there. 'Cause we were sitting across the road one day, and I thought, "Hang on a second, that is..."

Zelda: Ah, is there? Yeah, it was about there, and they used to have beautiful... and there was another place called... I think it was Tate's Fabric, or was that South Dunedin? That was later on, but DIC and places like that always had materials as well. So, any case, you'd go home and say, "Mum, I've got a dance tomorrow night." Or, you know, "Can you make me a dress?" So she...

Kay: So she had a day to make your outfit, yeah.

Zelda: So I would do, you know, the housework, while she sewed.

Kay: Ah, nice, yeah. And did you have all the petticoats and everything?

Zelda: Ah, yes, yes, 'cause you used to have this stuff in petticoats. You know, 'cause it was sort of... being rock and roll time, you know, 'cause they all had the... you know, the petticoats that were stiffened. And you could do it with, ah... you bought this special material that was for making, you know, making them so they would sit out a little further.

Jill: How much was the fabric in those days? We were talking about... 'cause I mean, to buy it every week, it must have been relatively inexpensive.

Zelda: I can't tell you, but it certainly, you know, 'cause you really wanted it. You really needed to have it, and then of course you had to have the shoes... you know, they had to go... match.

Kay: Oh, so you got new shoes as well?

Zelda: Well, you know, often.

Kay: So basically this is what you spent your earnings on? [laughs]

Zelda: Well, you know, you used to have matching shoes, and... and often your partner would have a tie that would be in a similar colour.

Kay: So, would your mum have made the tie as well?

Zelda: No, no, he would have...

Kay: Ah right, you'd just let him know.

Zelda: You know, that it might be lavender, or it might burnt orange or... it might be...

Kay: Right, ok.

Jill: 'Cause we were thinking, you know, sometimes you made a belt and things to match as well. Did you do that?

Zelda: Yes, yeah. You had to do all... you had to do everything really. So my mum was quite skilled at dressmaking by the time I grew up.

Kay: Yeah, I'll bet. So how did you find out what you wanted to wear? Did you have... like, flick through magazines, or did you go into a shop and have a look through all the materials that they had, or... had you been window shopping all week after work, or...?

27:30

Zelda: I can't remember how that happened. I think... you know, because when I worked at Broadcasting, we were in a typists' pool, so there was about maybe 10 or 12 girls, so there was always lots of conversation about the latest fashion.

Kay: So you knew when they got a new bolt of whatever in?

Zelda: Yeah, well you know, somebody knew something. You know, you were right onto that, so that you were up there as well. And of course working in Dowling Street we didn't have to go far to get to the Silk and Frock Shop, or... you know, DIC wasn't that far away. Brown Ewings was through the Exchange and up the other side. So you had those sorts of places. And of course there were lots of little frock shops and places, not that I ever bought very much that was ready-made. It was more what my mum made, so you could have more of.

Kay: And it fitted you perfectly, mmm.

Zelda: And my mother-in-law to be was also a good dressmaker, so she made me a ball-gown, probably when I was about 17. And it was all beautiful little jewellery-type encrustment around the neckline.

Kay: Mmm, gorgeous. Did you keep any of them?

Zelda: No. No.

Kay: Have you got any photos of you in any of them?

Zelda: I think there is. in here. Yeah, yeah.

Kay: Ah, we'll have to have a look later. Yeah, that'd be great, yeah.

Jill: So what was it like on Monday, when you all came back to work? I can imagine the typists' pool being quite excited, you know, what happened at the weekend.

Zelda: The buzz. Yes, it was a bit of a buzz, you know, about who met who, and who went home with who, and what did you wear, and you know, exciting little bits like that.

Kay: Yeah. Life probably sort of revolved around the dances, did it?

29:50

Zelda: Yeah, well I played sport as well. Like, I played hockey in town. I played for a club called Momona, even though it's a Taieri name, it was a town club. It wasn't anything to do with Momona, but I think they still play hockey for Momona. So I'd play hockey in the winter time, and in the summer time I played tennis at Berwick. I also played table tennis at winter time. So there was other things to do as well.

Kay: So you certainly kept fit.

Zelda: Yeah.

Jill: So when you were flatting with the group of girls, what was the process of the day like to get ready to go like, did you all get ready together, and...?

30:30

Zelda: Because there were six or seven of us in the flat, we were all sort of independent, sort of like... there was about five bedrooms in that house. I had a single bedroom. Another girl at the back of the house had a single bedroom, and then I think there were three that were doubles. Two were sisters, and others were friends, you know. So we weren't all there as friends. We were individuals, basically. We had two living rooms, so that you could, you know and two kitchens. So you were either in that kitchen or this kitchen.

Kay: Yes, they were flat-mates, rather than mates.

31:30

Zelda: Yeah. And because I went home at the weekend, I didn't sort of see much of what went on in the weekend. It was in the era of when the US Navy were in town. So there was the Brough and the different... they used to go down to the Antarctic. Yeah, so that apparently was quite an interesting place to be at the weekend.

Kay: I'll bet.

[laughter]

Kay: So, did they go to the dances as well, or not?

Zelda: The Navy boys? Yes, I think so.

Jill: And would they go in uniform?

Zelda: I don't know whether they would have been... I s'pose they were in uniform. Yeah, I think they would have to have their... mmm.

Jill: 'Cause that would have been... imagine seeing all those uniforms all walking up...

Kay: Swoon!

Jill: Exactly!

[laughter]

Zelda: It's probably an interesting exercise that you girls should do, is to interview some of the town girls that would have been out dancing when those boys were in town, and the stories you'd get from that.

Kay: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, the ones we've spoken to so far haven't mentioned the Navy being in town, so we'll have to... see if we can find out.

Jill: Yeah.

Zelda: I know the Brough... there was more than one ship, but they were there during that period.

32:30

Kay: Right, yeah. So, did you get your hair done, or did your mum do that?

Zelda: Did my own hair. But if you were going... you would often go to the hairdresser if you had a special... like, if it was a ball or a wedding, you'd go to the hairdresser. And it was... you know, you'd have a bouffant sort of a hairstyle.

Kay: Did you do those yourself. Could you do a bouffant yourself or not?

Zelda: Oh, yeah, you had big rollers.

[laughter]

Kay: Did you have to sleep in them?

Zelda: Yes. Yes, you could do. I slept in rollers lots of times. Or, you know, you went to the hairdresser. In those days you had perms, you know, so... you'd always have some curls to deal with. [laughs]

Kay: Did you have to go into Dunedin to do that, or were there hairdressers out on the Taieri?

Zelda: Well, of course I was working in town so, you know, you would go on a Thursday night, or a night-time appointment.

Kay: Ok, yeah, after work.

Zelda: Or after work, yeah.

33:50

Kay: Tell us what the atmosphere was like at any of the dances. You know, did they decorate them, or was it sort of a party atmosphere? How did it feel?

Zelda: The local... country ones, often the hall was decorated. And if it was a 21st or a wedding, you know, they'd have greenery and all the bunting and streamers and all those sorts of things. And we would sit folding up the streamers so you'd get the fancy patterns, and, you know. So yes, you decorated the hall. The Town Hall dances I don't remember them being decorated. South Dunedin had this beautiful big, shiny ball that was in the middle of the room that circled around.

Kay: A glitter ball.

Zelda: A glitter ball, yes. So they would dim the lights and it was quite a romantic sort of atmosphere, you know. [laughs] But certainly for weddings, and 21sts, and local functions there would be... the hall would be decorated.

35:03

Kay: So, I'm gonna just backtrack a wee bit. You played in a band. How did you get the band together, and what were they called?

Zelda: Our band was called the Maungatua Ramblers.

Kay: [laughs] Nice, like it!

Zelda: How it came about? My dad, as I said played the accordian, and he had a very good ear. And I learned music, but also I could play by ear as well. So, often we would sit around, you know, 'cause you used to have... made your own entertainment. And so he would play the accordian and I would play the piano. And then... I don't know, it was just, maybe it was a country... you know, there was an opportunity to provide some music for a kitchen evening or something, and they said, "Ah, you guys could play." So Athol got some drums, and we had a friend, Allan, that played the piano-accordian, so we roped him in as well. And so then we'd have little practice sessions 'til we learnt the, you know, the different tunes.

Kay: So Athol taught himself the drums, or had he played the drums previously?

36:23

Zelda: Yeah, no, he taught himself the drums. And of course my dad had good timing as well, so he was instrumental in getting us, you know, the right beat and things like that.

Kay: Yes, it's important when you've got people dancing, you've got to get the right tempo.

Zelda: Yes, you have. So we just sort of started it up just locally, you know for a 21st or a kitchen evening, or a birthday party, those sorts of things. So thats how that happened.

Kay: And did you get commissions, once you started doing it. Did people say, "Can we book you for this?"

Zelda: We probably had a dance band for I think I probably was still at high school from when we started... so... mmm... probably all of the sixties, so 10 or 12 years maybe. We probably stopped when our kids were you know, it was more difficult to have babysitters, though my mum used to be the babysitter. And so we probably stopped after that period of time, but we did it for quite a number of years.

Kay: So you would have had to go to places that already had a piano in place. They didn't have electric keyboards in those days.

Zelda: Ah, yeah. Most... every hall had a piano, even though some of them were a bit shonky. [laughter] You know, you stripped off the front, and we had a microphone so you could make the noise a bit louder. So... like, I had a book. So this has all the tunes in it.

Kay: Ah, it's your set list!

Zelda: Yes. Yeah, so... there was walzt ones and... there's lots of waltzes. So you could just flick through them. 'Cause I mean your music had to be continuous. You know, you went from one tune to the next. You didn't stop.

Kay: You had to just keep going. How long would you play for of an evening?

Zelda: Ah, four hours. Sometimes, if it was a ball, you'd play from eight o'clock to one o'clock. And then you'd have to drive home after that. And you might be away down... we used to go to Hillend, which is near Balclutha. That was quite a long... you know, you wouldn't be getting home 'til three o'clock.

Jill: So would you take breaks in between?

Zelda: Well, you'd stop, but it was pretty full-on. Yeah, it just... that was... you know, and it was peanuts. You'd get paid for a ball, and you might get 7 pound if you were lucky. And a dance was even less than that, so it wasn't... it wasn't...

Kay: You didn't do it for the money.

Zelda: No, you didn't.

Kay: But country folk are always good hosts. You would have been well fed and looked after.

Zelda: Yes, yes. There was always good suppers, and... you know, it was good fun.

Kay: Great. And when you were at the Town Hall dances, you said they recorded some of them for the radio?

Zelda: They did.

Kay: So, tell us a little bit about that. How did you get involved in that? Because you worked at the Broadcasting?

39:43

Zelda: I did. But I wasn't involved with any of that, but the technicians were always up there in the little glass studio. And it was broadcast for an hour, I think it was, and it was right... like, people from all round New Zealand could tune in to listen to the Town Hall dance. And when I won the prize for the Monte Carlo...

Kay: Ok, back up a bit! Tell us about the prize.

Zelda: Ok. They had it for this dance, and I think it was called the Monte Carlo, where they would spin the bottle in the middle of the floor...

Kay: Ah, that's what the Monte Carlo is. We heard that... that was on the video, yes. Ok, with cards. They had cards as well. That's what he was doing with the cards.

Zelda: Yes. And so you... when the bottle... it could have been cards. 'Cause it was diamonds or clubs, or... what's the other ones, the four...

Kay: Clubs, hearts, diamonds, and spades.

Zelda: Yeah, that's the one. So, whichever way, you went to whichever corner. So... or when they spun the bottle was where the bottle stopped. And all the people that were where the... in that corner, they were allowed to stay and everybody else had to leave. And they kept doing it until they...

Kay: So you got fewer and fewer people, right.

Zelda: Yes, until they got down to about 10 people. I was with Athol. And in any case, then they took us up on stage, and went through another elimination, and it got down to two of us.

Kay: So you'd be dancing in between each round?

Zelda: Yeah, the music would start, and then they'd stop, and they'd spin the bottle again, or the cards, whichever. 'Til you... you know, got the numbers down. And then, so then we were eliminated up on the stage until there was just two of us, Athol and me. So then they gave us this list of sponsors, and I think there were about 10 on the list to read and memorise, and then they took the list away, and then they said, "Right, now we want you to repeat what was on the list." So Athol got to about six, and he couldn't get anymore. And I got to eight, and then finally got the other two, so I won the prize. So... I can't remember how much it was, whether it was $500 or $1000.

Kay: Oh, gosh, so It was money!

Zelda: Well, it wasn't money as such, that you had to go and spend at the sponsors. You had to go to the sponsors to buy one of their products. So, my big prize, or the big amount of money I spent was at Paterson and Barrs, and I bought a formica table and chairs, because I was getting married and that was our table and chairs.

Kay: Ah, nice! That's perfect, yeah.

Zelda: Yeah, so that was really good. And I went to Brown Ewings and bought a coat. And I went to Silk and Frock shop and bought some material.

Jill: For the next dance!

Zelda: And I think Brian Snell might have been another one. I bought a transistor radio. And I think I bought a pair of shoes somewhere. [laughs] Until I'd been to all the different sponsors and spent the money. So that was quite exciting.

Kay: And that was all on the radio.

Zelda: And in any case, my cousins were in Ashburton, and they were listening, and they heard my name come across and they were so excited about... hoping that I could, you know, get the money. [laughs]

Kay: They were all listening at the radio. "Turn it up!" [laughs] So somewhere there must be an archive of that programme.

Zelda: Yeah, I'm sure there'll be...

Kay: Zelda... what was your maiden name then?

Zelda: Reid.

Kay: Zelda Reid won the prize, yeah.

Zelda: Yeah, but I think it happened more than once. Like, it wasn't a one-off, because the sponsors basically, you know, provided the prize.

Kay: Yeah, and that's how they got their bit of advertising on the radio, I suppose.

Zelda: Yeah. That's right.

Kay: Well, certainly at the 75th anniversary of the Town Hall they did that game again, 'cause we were trying to work out what they were doing. 'Cause we were just watching the video, and we didn't understand, but obviously everybody who was there there knew what was going on. So they must have done it more than once, yeah.

Zelda: Yes, it was the Monte Carlo, so... and I mean we did it at the local dances as well, you know, so...

Kay: Ah, ok, so it was quite common?

Zelda: Yeah, it was. You know, it was just a novelty dance really. So it was good fun. But, ah... I'm sure, back in the radio archives, there'll be Town Hall dance music, you know.

Kay: Yeah, we'll have to see if we can track something down, yeah.

44:43

Zelda: 'Cause Joe Brown was sort of running the Town Hall danced by the time we started to go.

Kay: Did you ever meet him?

Zelda: No. No, I didn't. But he was quite a... entrepreneur in his day. 'Cause he did all the Miss New Zealand shows, and all those sorts of things.

Kay: Yes, he certainly put Dunedin on the map, didn't he?

Zelda: Yeah, he did.

45:03

Kay: Do you remember the final Town Hall dance. The last one?

Zelda: Apart from my friend Eleanor and I going and sitting upstairs watching the dances, until we got itchy feet and decided that we should be down there. [laughter] And so we went down, and because we had no male partners, we danced together. But it was... yeah, it was good fun and it was like... reliving the memories of being at previous...

Kay: So that was in 2005. Yeah, you've got the ticket there.

Zelda: Yes, yeah.

45:43

Kay: But what about the last one, you know of their run. Not the reunion, but the last Joe Brown dance before they stopped. Do you remember that?

Zelda: Ah. No. No.

Kay: Do you remember what came after? I s'pose really, being in the country, dances just carried on, so you may not have noticed the gap, but we thought perhaps there would be quite a big gap in the social scene after they stopped.

Zelda: No. Yeah. No, I... 'cause probably there was nightclubs. I mean, there was the Manhatton Night Club, which was in Moray Place.

Kay: Yes. John Farry ran those. We've spoken to John, and he told us all about those.

Jill: Did you go there?

Zelda: Mmm.

Jill: Oooh, what was that like?

Zelda: And 'cause that was... we had a Young Farmers' ball there one time. And... the theme song of that night was "Puppet on a String". And it was amazing. Everybody... 'cause we were all there in our ballgowns and... you know, looking just the best. And that music came on and everybody just stood up, and... it was the tune of the night. It's funny how I remember that.

Kay: Took your shoes off! [laughs]

Jill: Do you remember what the Manhattan Lounge was like?

Zelda: I know you went upstairs to it. Apart from that, no I can't.

Kay: Do you remember the mural on the wall? 'Cause apparently they had a mural painted like the Manhattan skyline.

Jill: A Shona McFarlane mural.

Zelda: Ah, did they now? Yeah, vaguely remember that. Shame Eleanor's not here. She's got probably a much better memory than me. But, so there were places like nightclubs that you could go to, and of course out in the country scene was just normal, because you still had the functions that were going on for wedding dances, and... you know, wedding dances were quite the thing as well. You mightn't get invited to the wedding, but you'd get invited to the wedding dance.

Kay: Ah, I see, right.

Zelda: So, you know, because there'd be a certain number that would be invited to the wedding. And then all the ones that you couldn't invite to the wedding you could invite to your wedding dance, so... you know, you could have extra friends. So that was always exciting. So then you'd have a new outfit and a new hairdo and new shoes. You know, you'd take a present. And that was good fun.

48:03

Kay: Great. And what's your very fondest memory of the dances? Can you... is there something that you sort of think, "Ah, yes, I remember it well."?

Zelda: Hmm. Goodness. I can't really think of anything that really stands out... One thing my husband and I used to do is, often when we weren't playing music, and we were just there as... participating. And the band would start up and there was sort of a lull, and nobody would get up, often we would be one of the first dancers up on the floor, because you knew, from experience of playing music and not people getting up, that you need somebody to break the, you know, the cycle. So we would get up and start whatever the dance was. My husband was quite good at doing that. But I think it was just a good place to meet people and socialise, you know. There was no drink involved... for the girls at any rate. The girls didn't go outside to drink, you know. And... and you didn't need it either. You could enjoy yourself.

Kay: You had your own fun, yeah.

Zelda: Yes, yeah, yeah.

Kay: And did you miss it? Do you miss it?

Zelda: 'Cause it's quite different now. You know, there's not... well, you have 21sts and... but even now they don't have dances. Have you been to a dance lately?

Kay: No, not like that.

Zelda: No.

Kay: Not where everybody gets up and knows the moves, and they all move so well, so beautifully synchronised.

Zelda: That's right. I mean, nowadays if you get up, you just sort of can do whatever you want to do to whatever's...

Kay: You just sort of jiggle about a bit, don't you? [laughs]

Zelda: Yeah, you jiggle about. Yes, yeah.

Kay: There's not the skill.

Zelda: No. No. Like we... you certainly did learn the different dances. They used to have what they called round dances, which were the Lancers... or the first set, where you were in a circle of eight people. And that was quite intricate movements. And then there were... the Destiny was a beautiful waltz. And the Maxina was another one.

Kay: Ah, we've heard of the Maxina.

Zelda: And the Gypsy Tap. And the Military Two.

Kay: Oh, we haven't heard that one.

Zelda: The Military Two, that was a good one. And the Canadian Schottische. Well, we used to call it the Gay Gordons, it could be. It depended...

Kay: So that's the same thing, is it?

Zelda: Yes, it depends what locality you come from.

Kay: Right.

51:25

Zelda: What were the other ones? There was the foxtrot and there was the quick step. And we used to have square dancing, that was another thing that happened in the country. We used to have square dancing where you would have... and there was a square dancing night, and they would be at Berwick or at Henley, or Momona, or Outram.

Kay: And you'd have a caller?

Zelda: A caller, you know, and you'd take your partners, and do-si-do around. [laughter]

Kay: And they'd tell you what to do. I'd love that. I think I could manage that now. [laughs]

Zelda: Yeah, it was quite good fun, yeah.

51:45

Jill: Do you remember at the Town Hall dances, when they announced it was the last dance, do you remember people kind of rushing to partner up at the end? Was it a bit of chaos.

Zelda: Well, I'm sure. It didn't affect me, because I already had a partner, but you know, for the ones that were eyeing up that special girl or, you know... obviously, you know, there was perhaps...

Jill: A stampede! [laughs]

Zelda: We always finished up the dances at night with the Auld Lang Syne. Always... that was the last and that... 'cause you know how to do that, where you all join hands, yeah?

Kay: Yeah, cross your arms.

Zelda: So always, Auld Lang Syne was the last thing you played.

Kay: So you all got together in a ring and said goodnight to each other?

Zelda: Yes.

Jill: Quite nice. Ah, so there'd be one last dance, and then...?

Zelda: Yes, it was normally a waltz. And then you'd have Auld Lang Syne.

Jill: Perfect.

Kay: So at the Town Hall, did they have a sort of signature dance that they always started with and one that they finished with, so you knew...?

Zelda: I can't say I probably was there at the start or the finish.

Kay: Oh, you used to come part-way through the evening?

53:06

Zelda: Yeah, like you would come, you know, half an hour later or whatever. Often on the way home from the way home from the Town Hall dance, we'd stop at the pie cart.

Kay: Oh, where was the pie cart? I've heard about this, too. Where was the pie cart?

Zelda: The pie cart... there was one... I think there was one in the Exchange. There was definitely one in Dowling Street. And there probably was other ones around the town. But it was pea, pie and pud.

Kay: Right. So was it an actual cart, or was it like a...?

Zelda: Well, it was a caravan type thing. But you could you could either go in and sit down, or you could have... A takeaway. There wouldn't be many seats, but yeah, you could have pea, pie and pud.

Kay: Pea, pie and...?

Zelda: Pud.

Kay: What's the pud?

Zelda: Spud. Potato.

Kay: Ah, ok, right.

Zelda: Yeah, so that was pea, pie and pud. Or, 'cause the coffee bars were starting as well, so you could go to the coffee bar as well, which was... that was quite a nice place to go, and have cheese rolls.

Jill: What coffee bars were ther?

Zelda: The Little Hut.

Kay: Oh! [to Jill] That's the one you were interested in!

Zelda: Yeah, The Little Hut.

Kay: Where was the Little Hut?

Zelda: There were two Little Huts?

Jill: Was there?

Zelda: I think. One was down George Street, opposite Arthur Barnett's, or H&J Smiths. The other one... I want to say the other one... it had another name as well. It changed it's name, I think. There was one under Boots the Chemist. So, coming from Dowling Street, down to the Exchange, on the opposite side of the street, where Woolworths and... what else used to be in there?

Jill: Decca used to be in there

Zelda: Yeah, in there. There used to be a chemist shop, and it was Boots, and underneath that... what was that coffee bar called? But I think that was originally the Little Hut as well. And Ted Patterson was the owner. The person you need to talk to is Alistair Patterson, who's the son. And he's a lawyer. He might be Port Chalmers. He might live in Port Chalmers, but he's around town. But Ted Patterson started the first coffee bars in Dunedin.

Jill: So the Little Hut would have been open after the Town Hall dances?

Zelda: You sort of probably had to be there a little bit before the close, because it probably stayed open maybe 'til the movies came out, you know. It might have been more that we were going to  movies and then going to the coffee bar, you know. But there were lots of coffee bars around.

55:50

Jill: 'Cause we were... yeah, we've been talking about the Arthur Barnett's tearooms as well. They must have been huge.

Zelda: Yes, they were. Yeah.

Jill: 'Cause they were upstairs, was it on the first floor? I guess there was only one floor, wasn't there?

Zelda: You certainly went upstairs to it, and it was big. Yeah. Like, when we came to town... we would be on the farm then, and if we came to town, we would go to Arthur Barnett's or you'd go to... the one... ah, the Savoy. The Savoy, you could go there. And there used to be... ah, what was the one across the road from Arthur Barnett's? Margaret Morrison used to run and that was a really popular place with all the farming people. I can't remember the name of it. No, that's gone, can't remember now, but yeah, there were lots around town.

Kay: Well, thank you so much. It's been so lovely sharing your memories.

Zelda: Thank you.

[recording ends]