Transcript of interview with Nancy Blackstock

A transcript of an interview, recorded as part of the Dunedin Public Libraries' oral history project on the effects on the Dunedin community of poliomyelitis outbreaks in the 1940s and 1950s. Interviewee is Nancy Blackstock, who contracted polio at the age of three, and was initially paralysed from the neck down. Nancy talks about the effect on her family, her time at the Duncan Home, surgery to insert Harrington Rods to enable her to walk again, subsequent treatments and physiotherapy, and the shock of contracting Post-polio in her 40s and coming to terms with having to transition to a wheelchair.

Transcript of interview with Nancy Blackstock for the Dunedin Public Libraries He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds Portfolio Project

Recording Identification: This is an interview with Nancy Blackstock on Tuesday 31st May 2022. The interview is for the Dunedin Public Libraries He Purapura Marama Scattered Seeds Digital Archive Polio Oral History Project. The interviewer is Kay Mercer. The interview was recorded via Zoom and then converted to audio subsequently.

ABSTRACT

00:40    Introduction and recording permission

01:35    Nancy outlines her background

02:05    Nancy relates details of how she contracted polio at the age of three

03:55    Nancy discusses the arrival of the vaccine in NZ - too late for her as she was already parylised            from the disease - devastating for her family; compares polio mutations with COVID-19

05:25    Nancy talks about her early treatments - physiotherapy at New Plymouth hospital, Kenny            treatment at Hawera (hot packs); her mother got her a place at the Duncan Home - callipers    and crutches so she was able to walk again at five years of age

07:35    Nancy considers that her polio and her sister's disability impacted the family; mother and father's marriage broke down

08:05    Nancy never questioned her lot in life - just accepted that she had to have operations and spend time in recovery away from home; never at school long enough to make friends, but              had friends at the Duncan Home

09:25    Nancy recalls happy memories of the Duncan Home - her 'home away from home'; Mr Bell           the physiotherapist was like a father to the children at the home

11:15    Nancy remembers the correspondence school and getting help with homework from others       at the hospital; she continued to go to the Duncan Home as well as Palmerston North and Hawere hospitals until she was 17 or 18

13:35    Nancy describes having surgery to insert Harrington Rods in her back to support her spine -          very complicated operation with complex recovery; once recovered, no longer needed       callipers and was able to walk down the aisle on her father's arm on her wedding day

18:45    Nancy describes having symptoms of Post-polio in her 40s; by the age of 50, coming to terms          with needing a wheelchair

22:05    Nancy considers that the medical profession had no idea about Post-polio syndrome -    compares this to the lack of knowledge about long COVID; polio was frightening because it was so sudden and so devastating; talks again about her parent's break-up, and her own      determination which helped her cope with polio

27:34    Nancy describes the experience of writing down her life story - a difficult, emotional process         but rewarding; talks about her lifelong friendships from the Duncan Home

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00:40

Kay: So, Nancy, before we go any further, I want to confirm that you understand that this material is being recorded for archival purposes primarily for the Dunedin Public Libraries He Purarpura Marara Scattered Seeds Digital Archive Polio Project. The recording will be held in the He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds Digital Archive www.dunedin.recollect.co.nz which I will henceforth call "the Archive" 'cause that's very long. A copy of the recording may be held on repository in digital form by Dunedin Public Libraries, and material held in the Archive is freely accessible by the general public, as specified in the written recording agreement we have provided for you to sign, and that you have signed. Are you happy with that, and are you willing to continue with the recording?

Nancy: I'm happy with that, and to continue with the recording.

Kay: Thank you so much, Nancy. And you should get a wee thing that says this is recording. Usually it talks to you and says "this is being recorded". Maybe it doesn't. But I can confirm we are recording. So we'll start now. So, Nancy, could you please tell me a little bit about yourself, where you're based?

01:35

Nancy: I live in New Plymouth, in Taranaki. Under the mountain... and have lived in Taranaki most of my life. Did have a short stint in Tauranga, ah, when I was first married.

Kay: Right, that's lovely. And can you tell me what your experiences have been in regard to the polio epidemic, or epidemics in New Zealand?

02:05

Nancy: Most of what I recall is hearsay, purely and simply because I was three when I contracted polio. I do remember running back from the toilet and falling down in the hallway and not being able to move. I believe I was transported to New Plymouth Hospital, to possibly go in the iron lung, but that wasn't required. But I have heard that I was in isolation for a good long time. How long, I have no idea. I remember coming out into the ward, and I was beside another girl, who became my friend, who was a little bit older. She's since passed away, but she had been in the iron lung. And of course, in those days, hospitals were... kids wards anyway, were... every child and every disease was all in the same ward. I was three... three, October... I would have been four in the January of 1955. From there I spent quite some time in New Plymouth Hospital. My parents lived in Stratford, which is a 30 minute drive, probably longer than that in those days, 'cause cars didn't go so fast then... and my mother had two children at home anyway, so she... I don't recall seeing her at all while I was in hospital. I vaguely remember seeing my grandmother, who lived in New Plymouth, perhaps once. But everyone was terrified of getting polio. No-one wanted to... to be involved with... with polio if they could possibly avoid it, as I remember.

03:55

As I vaguely remember... the vaccines came into New Zealand the year after, so from there on in... other than the children, or people that got it in 1955, '56,  that was the end of the epidemics as far as I recall.

Kay: Was the vaccine of any help to you? Were you able to have the vaccine, or was the fact that you contracted it already that meant you had been immunised effectively?

Nancy: No, like... like the COVID virus... it mutated. And so, when I was I don't know whether I was at school or just preschool, I went and had... the vaccine. And then again when the... the syrup came out I had that again... because as it mutates, you know it takes on other... positions so it can get into your body again sort of thing. So there was no way that my mother wanted, ah, anything to do with me getting any worse than I already was. I was  completely paralysed from the neck down. I could move my head from side to side, and I could lift my left arm every so slightly, and my parents were promised that I'd never sit up or walk again. And that, as a three-year-old, must have been devastating for my parents.

05:25

Kay: So, you had physiotherapy presumably? What could they do for you?

Nancy: I remember having just a little bit of physio in New Plymouth Hospital, where I was encouraged to lift my left arm more, and I could get a lolly if I did. But I don't remember any more than that. And from there I went to Hawera Hospital, where they were doing the Kenny Treatment, which is hot packs and exercise. I don't remember it, other than the man who was in the bed beside me at physio. I don't recall what they did to me. I remember coming home at the weekends, and lying in bed, and my brother would come and chat to me about what was going on. He was about two. But that I don't recall at all. And then, from there, my mother was... pretty forceful, and she wrote to the Duncan Home in Whanganui, which deals just with polio patients. And I got an interview down there, and Mr Bell decided that he would help me, which he did, so more packs... lots of exercise twice a day. And at age five, with two long callipers and two crutches, I walked again.

Kay: Ah, how wonderful, yes.

Nancy: That was very exciting.

Kay: It was. I bet your mother must have been so relieved, yeah.

Nancy: Ah, she had... she already had her eldest daughter with a problem. Ah, my sister was... got a bug in the nurses home, and she had one leg that wasn't growing as fast as the other, so... she had a built-up... ah, footwear. So... it was just another job for my mum, really.

Kay: Yeah, it must have been so hard for her.

07:35

Nancy: It was... I think it was pretty hard, not that Mum ever mentioned it... but... their marriage broke up when I was... seven, I suppose. And I'm sure some of it was probably due to the fact that Mum spent all her time with my sister and I. Yeah, so that was pretty sad.

Kay: Mmm, so she... she didn't talk to you about any of the experiences? She preferred not to talk about it, was that right?

Nancy: Well, as a child, you accept what you've got.

Kay: Yes.

08:05

Nancy: And why ask questions? You know, this is my life. You just get on with it. And I never asked my Mum anything that I recall. Ah, you know, she would discuss an operation that was going to... that I was going to take off. And... I just thought it was normal, that you have another operation, and it didn't... I didn't consider that I wouldn't. I mean, today I would certainly question anything and everything that someone might want to do to me. But in those days it was my life, and I... I got on with it.

Kay: Mmm. Do you remember... having a different experience at school?

Nancy: I never spent a full year at school until I was a fifth former.

Kay: Gosh, right.

Nancy: So there was always time to be spent at Duncan, having operations. My... I mean I... I didn't make friends like close friends, I guess because I was never... never at school long enough to make friends. I mean, I did have friends, but , you know, they came and went, sort of thing. You'd just think you'd made a friend and you'd be back into hospital. And I guess most of my friends still come from those that I made at the Duncan Hospital. So most of my friends, close friends, have probably had polio at a similar time to me.

09:25

Kay: Mmm. What are your recollections of the Duncan Home, or the Hospital?

Nancy: Ah, it was wonderful. It was a home away from home.  there was always a sister in charge, on duty, other than at night-time. But the girls that looked after us were not much older than us. They were girls that had left school at 15 or 16, thinking that they'd go do nursing. And so, you know, they were young and vibrant and... you know, you often heard about their boyfriends, and... and Mr Bell was... Mr Bell the physio was like a dad to us... if he heard anything that he didn't think was right, he'd tell us that, you know it wasn't right. And the matron, although she was very stern, she was a...  she was really a lovely lady, and I guess I didn't really get to know how nice she was until I left, like I was no longer at Duncan. In fact I was an adult and I went to visit her. She was really lovely. And she was very stern with the nurses of course. That was her job. But, you know, Duncan was just a home away from home. We had midnight feasts and, I was actually unfortnate that most of my... most of the people I was in with were either a couple of years older or a couple of years younger. And so, you know, you didn't mix with the older kids because you were a kid, and  well, do you wanna mix with the babies? You know, it was... it was frustrating. But in actual fact, other than being away from home I quite enjoyed being at Duncan.

11:15

Kay: So, did you have schoolwork there, or was it more about the physio?

Nancy: Yes, correspondence, yeah, yeah.

Kay: So, did you have a teacher on sight, or was it correspondence?

Nancy: , there was always someone that could help us, if we got stuck, because... I mean, my mother taught me for the first three years. I went to school, until primer four, just to learn writing, 'cause Mum didn't think she could teach me to write. And making it difficult, I'm ambidexterous, so I print left-handed and write right-handed, so... she might have found if she could teach me one way, she probably couldn't teach me the other, so... yeah my dad was ambidexterous as well, but my mum was definitely right-handed.

Kay: Interesting yeah. [laughs] Did children come from all over to Duncan?

Nancy: Yes, I think even Fiji. Yeah, there was probably only 20 of us, but... and there was one ward that had adults. Or... you know, 16... or 17 or 18 year olds... or early 20's. Some of them might have been older than that as well. But the majority of us were children.

Kay: Mmm, yeah. And how long did you stay there for... you personally?

Nancy: I think six to nine months is probably the longest stint I had. But usually if I'd had an operation, either in Palmerston North or Hawera, or Whanganui, then you went back to Duncan to... build up your strength again, and get moving again.

Kay: Mmm, yeah. And when was your last stint there? How old were you when you stopped going?

Nancy: 17, 18.

Kay: Ah, right. So it was quite a long time you were there?

Nancy: Yeah, absolutely.

Kay: That's a big part of your life.

Nancy: Yeah, and by the time... by the time I was 17 or 18 there was... Duncan wasn't dealing just with polios, they were dealing with ACC patients as well, getting them... rehab for them as well.

13:35

Kay: They did good work, didn't they?

Nancy: Ah, just wonderful. Just absolutely wonderful. Mr Bell, was actually the nephew of Sister Kenny who designed the... the Kenny Treatment. And he went to America and studied under her, and then was asked by Sir Thomas and Lady Duncan to come to New Zealand and treat polio here, which... which he did do, so... He was Australian, and he lived the majority of his life in Whanganui... as a physio. I had very bad scoliosis and because of... the fact that I didn't have a huge amount of muscle tone in any part of my body, they weren't happy to put me into a back brace, so at age 13 I was sent to Auckland to see a... a surgeon, Mr Nicholson, who had been to America and studied, the Harrington Rods, which are two rods which... well, which were put into the back to straighten it. And I had to wait for the rods to actually arrive in New Zealand, so I was only the second person in New Zealand to have Harrington Rods put in the spine, so it was quite a long, lengthy operation, although these days it's very simple. So what happened... so at 13 I was strung from the roof by my neck, with just my toes, tippitoes on the ground. And they slapped a plaster on me that was like a singlet, but it went right down my left leg to my knee. And when that had dried they split it around the middle, above my ty button, and they put a hinge on the left-hand side. And a window opener that wound open on the other side, and they wound that out until they got me as straight as they possibly could. Then they plastered that all in, and opened a window at the back, and operated throught that, so... the first thing they do is put a screw with hooks and nuts on it, and they hook that onto the vertebrae, and because of the nuts they can actually then straighten the spine even more. They took bone from my hip and put it in where the spine had separated. And then they put a longer rod in, which goes from the top of my... just below my neck to just about the bottom of my spine. And I had to stay in that plaster from April to November. I did come home. I went over to the Wilson Home, which I didn't enjoy. And, I came home for a stint. And then when I went back, they took the plaster off, and... put more... opened me up and put more... bone in where it hadn't quite healed enough. And then I wasn't allowed to go to school for the following year... and so, as I say it was... I was a fifth former before I actually went to school for a whole year.

Kay: Right. Goodness, me. That's a huge operation, isn't it? It's just amazing!

Nancy: It is. These days they don't do it anything like that. They still use the Harrington Rods, but it's a very simple operation. And have them back dancing and doing all sorts of things, you know, within weeks of having it done. But, yeah so it probably saved my life because my spine was getting so crooked it was pushing on my lungs and I wasn't able to breathe properly, and... it changed my life.

Kay: Oh, gosh. Amazing. So how has it been for you post-polio?

Nancy: Post-polio? Well, I met my husband at school. We've been together for 53 years, I think. Ah, been married for 48 years tomorrow.

Kay: Congratulations!

Nancy: Thank you. And we have two daughters. So, after being lumbered with crutches and callipers, I went to work... by the time I'd had all my operations, I was able to no longer have callipers, and I just had crutches. And, the physio at the hospital - I worked in the laboratory... reckoned she could get me off my crutches. So, I went to physio in my lunch hour every day, and I got down to walking sticks, so... I walked down the aisle on the arm of my dad and back on the arm of my husband.

18:45

But at age 40 things started to go haywire, and so I got, the late effects of post-polio...  and had to think about getting into a wheelchair. And I found that that was extremely difficult for me, because...  there was places I could no longer go, there was things I could no longer do when you're in a wheelchair. But at 50 I decided that that's where I needed to be. And at the same time I opened a shop in town. When I'd been in QE getting assessed, I found folk art and loved it that much that I went to classes, two classes a week. And the day I turned 50 I told my friends I was opening a shop and teaching folk art, so... that's what I did for eleven and a half years. But as time's gone I've gone from a manual chair to a power chair. I have grandchildren, four grandchildren, yeah so... I mean, life's not easy, but then I don't know any other life so I just get on with it. I'm not a person who sits around and thinks "poor me" because, you know, it's just a waste of time.  yeah, so  and I've been lucky. Ah, my husband and I have worked hard. He probably worked hard more than I, and  we have a lovely home, which suits me absolutely perfectly. We've made it completely wheelchair accessible. And these days I take my chair and roll into town, and catch up with friends, and... yeah.

Kay: Mmm, so you can be independent.

Nancy: Yeah. I've always been creative, so,  you know, I've done all kinds of things from sewing to embroidery... to art, to bobbin lace, to knitting... to yeah, just anything that takes my fancy, I'll give it a go. So always busy. You know, never... even as a kid, school holidays were never long enough for me to do the things...

Kay: Yeah. So did you know that... did you have any idea that polio was going to come back and bite you like this?

Nancy: No, no-one had ever lived long enough with polio to know that it was going to happen. Mr Bell always said that we would probably age quicker. Our physical age would be older than our... actual age... but I did see friends start to go through it. I remember I was having difficulty with something, and I went to a doctor, I think he was a neurologist. And he said "You've got post-polio syndrome". I said "Don't be stupid. I haven't got time for that stuff." But yeah, he was right. It was the beginning of the end. I was... I remember I was walking at times, and suddenly my whole body would freeze. And I'd have to give myself a couple of breaths, and then I could carry on. And it just got worse and worse, and I started to have falls. And I just thought well, this isn't the life I want. And that's why I chose to get into a wheelchair.

22:05

Kay: Mmm, yeah. So they had no idea, back in the '60s that this would happen?

Nancy: No idea at all. No. No, Mr Bell always just said, you know, because of your disability and I guess I... I must admit that,  you know, we didn't start looking at brains and things like that until the '70's, so , people probably had no idea how polio worked. You know, it's a bit like COVID today, they really had no idea what the long term was going to be. We've all been jabbed, vaccinated... you know, was that the right thing to do, or wasn't it? And... you know, there are people that have been affected by the jab. And there are people that will have lasting effects, with their heart etcetera, etcetera... their brain. And that's really scary, and you know I... I just... people cannot understand that... what a virus can do to you. It's pretty horrifying really. That... you know, I can be a little girl dancing, and... and... round the table, and... I had these little red sandles, that I just loved to wear all the time. I danced everywhere, I skipped everywhere. And suddenly I'm completely paralysed. That's completely unheard of... just crazy.

Kay: That was what's so frightening about it, wasn't it? It was so sudden.

Nancy: Ah, absolutely. Completely. Yeah. And, you know, I... I hate to think... in fact, this last year my youngest grandson was exactly the same age as I was when I got polio. He and I share, almost share a birthday, so it was exactly. , and I looked at him, and I looked at my daughter, and thought my gosh, how would you cope? Just how would you cope if suddenly that vibrant little boy was completely paralysed and... never to walk... do anything by himself again,  really scary.

Kay: Really scary. And so hard for your mum not to be able to visit you as often as she must have wanted to.

Nancy: Yeah, exactly. Well, then I went to Whanganui, that was even harder still. But,  parents were wonderful. They always included another one or two kids when they came to visit. And so my mum would pick up as many kids as she could if we went to the park or something. And vice versa, you know, other parents would pick up me and take me,  wherever.

Kay: Yeah. So, despite everything, you had a good childhood, and good support?

Nancy: Well, I consider it... I mean I didn't have a good childhood in the fact of my parents' breakup. That was extremely hard, because... because of he conditions that my mother [signs] my mother became quite bitter. And I understand why. But she was desperate to have her son. And she just loved her son. And I got on extremely well with him as well. But my dad was just as keen to have my brother go to him. I found that pretty difficult...  and so that side of it was not good. But you know, I just say kids are so adaptable. They just accept. It's the parents that have the problem. You know, I'm just amazed that parents have to go into hospital with you now. Really, why? You know? , and I do understand why, but  when I think of the days and nights that I was not at home with my family... never considered it should be any other way.

Kay: So that hasn't impacted you at all, that you were in hospital on your own?

Nancy: No. No.

Kay: Ah, that's good, yeah.

Nancy: But I'm pretty strong-minded, and I'm pretty stubborn. And I don't look back with any regret. I think it's just my nature that... I accepted whatever... I had coming to me, and just got on with it.

Kay: Yeah. Maybe that's made you as resilient as you are.

Nancy: Probably, yeah. 'Cause you know, other people... I know of other people who went to Duncan, and had operations etcetera, and... you know, they're quite scathing about their life. Yeah, no I... I just... think it's pretty good. And I've got a girlfriend whose family life wasn't that great, and she said it was a blessing to go to Duncan.

Kay: It just depends on your outlook, doesn't it?

Nancy: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it does. And I think that applies to, anyone's life. You know, it's all very well to be sad and morbid about... whatever, your sore finger or whatever, but in actual fact... I remember my dad saying to me at one stage, I asked him, you know, about the break up. And he said "We only get to live once". And he said, "This isn't a rehearsal", he said, "and you've gotta make the best of it."

Kay: Mmm. Very wise.

Nancy: Yeah, so I guess I have.

Kay: Mmm, well done you.

Nancy: Thank you. Just recently I've written... Storyworth, I don't know whether you've heard of Storyworth?

27:34

Kay: No, I haven't, no.

Nancy: So, Storyworth was... every week they sent you a topic to talk about... about going back, you know, so for your grandchildren etcetera. So... so every week we had homework for 52 weeks, and there was questions about grandchildren and... ah, grandparents and all that sort of thing. But I actually spent three months writing my life with polio. So, a lot of the stuff that we've talked about today, I've actually just recalled again, and I found it really hard, 'cause... you know, some of it was quite emotional... ah, to actually put it down. But I felt that my family, going forward, should know about what my life was like, because... you know, there won't be anyone else to tell the story. My parents are gone, and... yeah.

Kay: That's right. It's so valuable, yeah.

Nancy: It is. And in fact my husband loved it. I mean, he would talk about his 'homework' but... we now have... I haven't actually seen the book in real life, but it's a thick book. It's this thick... 309 pages of both our lives.

Kay: Oh, how wonderful! So your family get to keep the book, do they?

Nancy: The grandchildren get to keep the books.

Kay: Oh, how wonderful. That's lovely.

Nancy: Yeah, I think it's... pretty super. I try to ecourage everyone to do it, because... you know, I've got the typewritten pages in here, so I've got my... we've got our own book. But, yeah no, it's come up really nicely, and I think... you know, there's things that happen in your life that are hard to remember, but when you get that story put in front of you...  But I did realise then that... you know, friendship was not somethat I craved, or needed... or kept up with, other than those people that I guess I was in hospital with for more of... more time than anything else.

Kay: Mmm. I suppose you... you took those friends that most understood you, and most... yeah, you lived a similar lifestyle, I suppose.

Nancy: Well, no, the friends that I have today, are friends that... we have things in common.

Kay: Yes. Mmm.

Nancy: I guess that's why... the polio friends, they were there, we had something in common... and, we keep... in touch.

30:14

Kay: So, you've still got friends from Duncan's?

Nancy: Ah, yes. Yeah, yeah.

Kay: Ah, how lovely, yeah. Yeah.

Nancy: Some have passed away, but, you know, I've still got a few that I keep up with.

Kay: That's a wonderful thing. It's good to have that shared history.

Nancy: Ah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Kay: Yeah. Ah, well good on you. Well, really that's what the archive's about. It's a bit like your Storyworth, because it's... getting your story down, it makes it available to everyone, so your family can... listen to your voice, you know? And still hear your words, and... it's so valuable to people.

Nancy: Ah, absolutely.

Kay: Yeah. So, I really appreciate that. Thank you very, very much.

Nancy: Well, thank you for the opportunity.

Kay: Ah, it's been wonderful, and I've really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you so much.

Nancy: Thank you.

[Recording ends]