Transcript of interview with Mervyn Dykes

A transcript of an interview, recorded as part of the Dunedin Public Libraries' oral history project on the effects on the Dunedin community of poliomyelitis outbreaks in the 1940s and 1950s. Interviewee is Mervyn Dykes and the interview was recorded on 8th June 2022. 

Transcription of interview with Mervyn Dykes for Dunedin Public Libraries He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds Portfolio Project

Recording identification: This is an interview with Mr Mervyn Dykes on Wednesday 8th June. And the interview started at 11am.  The interview is for the Dunedin Public Libraries He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds digital archive Polio Oral History project. The interviewer is Kay Mercer. The interview was conducted via Zoom. The interview was recorded using the Zoom in-house recorder, and the audio was subsequently converted to a .WAV file for archive purposes.

ABSTRACT

00:50    Introduction and recording permission

02:10    Mervyn talks about his early life and background

03:39    Mervyn talks about contracting polio at the age of 7, and his family's reaction to that

07:09    Public restrictions and health precautions during the polio outbreak of Mervyn's childhood

08:09    Mervyn talks about treatments and therapies - no consistency around New Zealand; with          exercise, Mervyn made a very good recovery and was able to participate in sports and a        relatively normal, active life

10:39    Mervyn explains that no-one mentioned the possibility of Post-polio when he was young -          the medical profession were unaware of it; Mervyn knew very few other polios as a boy, but              talks about some that he knew of

12:59    The fellowship of Polio New Zealand

14:39    Mervyn recalls when the Salk vaccine became available

16:19    Mervyn considers polio survivors to be A-type personalities - a factor in their ability to fight       the effects of the disease

18:04    Mervyn talks about how Post-polio affected him much later in life and how little the medical           profession understands polio, due to their belief that the vaccine had more or less eradicated it

20:54    Mervyn talks about his experience of hospital care and physio

23:34    Mervyn draws comparisons with COVID-19 and the problem of assuming, as happened with       polio, that the danger is removed just because there is a vaccine

27:04    The value of Polio New Zealand to support polios and help them understand they have a               right to a good life - how to find them

________________________________________________________________________________

00:50

Kay: We're recording. I don't know if you get a message, but I can see that it's recording now, so I'm letting you know. Sometimes Zoom tells you this is being recorded, sometimes it doesn't.

Mervyn: That's alright. It is now. And it just says... I'm picking I've got it and it'll leave the screen on that, yeah. But the box has gone.

Kay: Ok, fair enough, alrighty. So, I know this is a bit long-winded, but I'm going to read you this wee... disclaimer, I think that's the word, well it's a verbal agreement. Mervyn, before we go any further, I want to confirm that you understand that this material is being recorded for archival purposes primarily, for the Dunedin Public Libraries He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds digital archive Polio project. The recording will be held in the He Purapura Marara Scattered Seeds digital archive www.dunedin.recollect.co.nz, which I'll call 'the Archive' 'cause that's very long. A copy of this recording may be held on repository in digital form by Dunedin Public Libraries - that just means in a file. Material held in the Archive is freely accessible by the general public as specified in the written recording agreement we have provided for you to sign. Are you happy with that, and are you willing to continue with the recording?

Mervyn: Yes, I am.

02:10

Kay: Wonderful, thank you so much, Mervyn. Alright, now I'm just going to get those questions open. We'll probably just have this as a chat. You know, I just like to let it flow and see what comes out, but I'll use the questions to guide the conversation if that's alright with you. And I thoroughly enjoyed the book, it was so good.

Mervyn: Ah, thank you.

Kay: I hope you don't mind me saying so. So, we'll start with a little bit of information about yourself, if that's alright.

Mervyn: Yep.

Kay: Where did you grow up? I just want to establish for listeners whether you have a connection to Dunedin or not.

Mervyn: Well, I've visited Dunedin, but I've never lived there. I was born in Auckland, and during the years of the War my mother shuffled backwards and forwards between Auckland and Wellington, depending on where Dad's ship came in. Then we settled in Whanganui for the very early part of my life, until about the age of 11. And then moved to Palmerston North, where I did the rest of my growing up. Now, since then I've been wandering a lot you know, in many different countries and places like that. Umm, so I don't know whether there is any one place that I now call home. I'm also a dual citizen, too. As the result of the travelling, I'm now, umm... have Canadian citizenship as well as New Zealand citizenship. So, I'm a mixture, I'm a mongrel.

Kay: Good, we like that. A rich tapestry. [laughter]

03:39

Kay: So, well going back to your childhood, how did you first hear about polio as a boy? Did you talk about it with your friends or your family?

Mervyn: No, although my parents did mention it a couple of times, and in the book I talk about... ah, going home with my dad from a job... accompanied him on a job, and we were talking about it for some reason. I have no idea now why that should be, but it obviously was a discussion point, particularly at that time. And later, when I had sort of, ah, aparently recovered and I was playing with my friends, I often heard their parents whispering. You know, so I was very conscious of the fact that there was a... difference. And, ah, that was a little bit awkward for me at the time, but I... just being a kid, I just got on with the playing.

Kay: Yeah, so you were sort of dimly aware of it, really? It wasn't something that featured highly.

Mervyn: No, that's probably true, yeah.

Kay: Do you recall what the mood was like around polio. Was there any sort of fear? Were your parents concerned, or...? They must have talked to you for a reason, I presume?

Mervyn: I remember the concern on their faces when I was isolated. Umm, and most people only came to the bedroom door, and looked in. The exception being my mum, who would not stay out, and she came and sat on the edge of my bed, and she was there for most of the time that I can remember. But the problem for me is that I have no idea now, when I became ill. My first polio memory is of being in that bed. How I got there, I have no idea. So, ah... and there wasn't much talking done about it, you know, during that time, or afterwards. Except I could, ah, read the expression on people's faces... like my mum and my dad when he peeped around the door a couple of times, and... I could see the concern and the worry there. As a kid I didn't really know what was going on. All I know was that I was feeling bad. And ah... in the book there, there's reference to one sort of little passing reference with my mum you know, I was trying to cry, and I was so hot and feverish that I couldn't produce tears. And she said "what's the matter?" And I said to her "I don't want to die." And she looked me straight in the eye and said "you won't". I believed her, so ah... hey, I'm still here. [chuckles]

Kay: Mmm, yes, she was right, thank goodness, yes. So you were about seven, I think you said? Around the age of seven?

Mervyn: Yes, yeah.

Kay: So, obviously you were very young, but you've still got these strong memories that you have of certain points, even though you...

Mervyn: Certain points, yeah.

Kay: Yeah. So they must have been quite significant for you at that time, yeah.

Mervyn: Although, also at the other end of the scale, I cannot remember when they let me out of the bed. You know, I was... my memory is showing myself being in bed, and under duress and then slowly starting to play outside again. But the transitions I just cannot remember.

Kay: Mmm, it must have been very traumatic for you, I imagine, and therefore perhaps, you know, you only remember snippets of it, yeah.

Mervyn: Mmm, possibly, yeah.

07:09

Kay: Yeah. So, when you were at school, or at home, did... before you contracted polio, do you remember any restrictions or precautions? You mentioned keeping your hands clean was one thing that you knew about, even though your parents didn't.

Mervyn: No, I cannot remember much at all. I really feel now that people didn't know a whole lot about polio.

Kay: You mention also in your book, ah, about some restrictions, such as swimming and that sort of thing. So you were aware of that, or were they things that were told about?

Mervyn: These were things I learned afterwards.

Kay: Right.

Mervyn: There had been these pool closures, and limitations at sports meetings and theatres, and that sort of thing. That was stuff I learned afterwards. At the time, I didn't know much.

Kay: Mmm, so you were happily, blissfully unaware.

Mervyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Kay: Until that fateful time when it actually hit you.

Mervyn: Mmm, and then I just didn't know what was going on anyway, so...

08:09

Kay: No. So, do you recall what treatment you had, any... if there's any that you're comfortable talking about. Or again was it that you were told about things?

Mervyn: Again, the only thing I can remember is the doctor making regular visits. Probably daily, or at least every two days. And he would bend me, and twist me around and try to keep me moving. Ah, which is a kind of a contrast to other people's reports where they've been more or less immobilised. And this doctor tried to keep me moving, even to the point of putting a half crown coin on my knee when I was sitting up in the bed, and saying "it's yours if you can get it." I never got it.

Kay: Ah, no. But you tried! [laughter]

Mervyn: So it was an incentive, you know, to make me move.

Kay: Yes, exactly, yeah. So there seems to be a bit of inconsistency between the treatments, doesn't there? As if the...

Mervyn: Very much so. Some of the treatments, I think, were almost medieval in some areas. You know, it was quite... quite weird. Ah, but this doctor, I don't know whether it was the influence of the... the Duncan Home being in the same area or not, but... he was quite keen to get me moving.

Kay: Yes. And that proved to be a good thing, because it definitely helped you, didn't it?

Mervyn: I think so. I think so.

Kay: Yeah. That's good. So, did you attend the Duncan Home, or...?

Mervyn: No, I didn't.

Kay: But you had a specialist facility that you went to, or were you just in the general...?

Mervyn: No, I didn't. It was home treatment, all of it.

Kay: Ah, ok. Right.

Mervyn: But that was unusual. I don't know why that should be. But... I was just stuck in that room, and I stayed there until they let me out.

Kay: Right. So, again, the treatment... types of treatment, and whether they were home-based or specialist, so much variety around the Country. Yeah.

Mervyn: Yeah.

Kay: Were... you don't remember how long you were absent from school, for example?

Mervyn: No, I don't. The whole period is just a blur for me.

Kay: Yeah, ok. But do you remember studying at home? Did you get lessons at home?

Mervyn: No, I didn't. Not that I'm aware of.

Kay: Right, ok.

Mervyn: But as I say, it is a blur. I was, you know, quite sort of feverish and... away in a world of my own most of the time.

Kay: Mmm, but you appeared to make a remarkable recovery. So, you were umm... for at least a time, you were very lucky to have that.

Mervyn: Very much... very much so.

Kay: Almost a normal life, yeah.

10:39

Mervyn: And nobody mentioned anything about polio afterwards. I grew up thinking that ok, I'd been very sick, but I'd come through it, and I was alright now. Which was in a quite sharp difference to a lot of my polio friends, who had something like a brace or a restraint of some kind, to sort of always remind them of what had happened.

Kay: Yes. So you didn't really have any physical aftereffects of polio, at that time at least?

Mervyn: Well, not that I was clever enough to see. Although... I got very involved in as much sport as I could afterwards. And one of the things I was in was the school gym club. And I remember our coach saying, "Merv, have you ever noticed that whenever you go over the vaulting horse you're pushing harder on one side than the other?" And I said "no". And then mentally I said to myself, that must be my polio side, the weak side. So I will not thrust so hard on the other side next time I go over. So I tried to straighten it out without sort of saying anything to anybody.

Kay: Right, ok. Do you remember the medical profession ever alerting you to the fact that there might be such a thing as post-polio?

Mervyn: No.

Kay: So, nobody knew?

Mervyn: Nobody knew.

Kay: Right, yeah. Do you recall other family or friends, or people around you who contracted polio? And do you remember what happened to them? You did mention a couple in your book.

Mervyn: No, I don't remember much. There were two other two or three other people at my school. And one of them passed away. And the other... another person I had sort of a fleeting contact with through, ah, you know polio groups, ah, who wa partially paralysed, you know, or... needs a brace, or something like that. But I didn't know... there was not a lot... it really wasn't for me.

Kay: Mmm, that seems to be quite common, that... people didn't know many other people, except in the hospitals where they went to get physio or to recover. Yeah, it's interesting. So you you've kept in touch with one or two, obviously?

12:59

Mervyn: Through Polio New Zealand. I've been quite active in that. And that, it's a very good community. And, ah, we have Zoom meetings every week. I do a Zoom exercise class, and I do a... a thing called Polio Morning Tea. And we get together and just talk... or else we have a specialist speaker come in and give us instructional training. Ah, I've also been to a specialist hospital in Rotorua twice, and there I met others, you know. Ah, it was mentioned in the book of this... ah, this lady speaking up at one of the informal natters, you know, saying that she'd been living as a virtual recluse. And I think that's quite common with most polio people. They... they don't like to think that they're that much different. And if they get somewhere that's gonna show a difference some of them will avoid it.

Kay: Yeah. We'll come to that later, 'cause I want to talk about your thoughts about the type of person who contracts polio then. I just wanted to ask, do you remember when the Salk vaccine came in? I'm interested in finding out how people learned about the Salk vaccine. And also did the mood change when they realised there was a vaccine available? I'm trying to compare this with the COVID situation, where we were all told everything on social media and the news. And I imagine back in the time of the polio epidemic there wasn't that communication level, so I wondered how people found out about things.

14:39

Mervyn: I'd just started working as a journalist. I started working as a journalist at the age of 17. You know, so fairly young. And I remember in Palmerston North, when the vaccine first came out, I went around with a photographer... ah, to photograph the Mayor, knocking back a... an oral dose. And so I actually wrote about it before I... experienced it. Because when I contracted polio, there was no vaccine.

Kay: No. So, did you have the vaccine yourself, or was there no need to at that point?

Mervyn: I took it anyway.

Kay: Ah, right, fair enough.

Mervyn: A toast with the Mayor.

Kay: Ah! [laughter] So the mood must have been quite joyous when that came, 'cause it had been around for decades, hadn't it?

Mervyn: Well, the most noticable thing for me is that, umm, once the vaccine came out, to a lot of people polio was gone and done and dusted. It was out. There was never a reason to worry about it at all. I tried to make it in my book that, umm, polio was really only a plane ride away. If people stopped vaccinating against it... umm, they're at risk.

Kay: Mmm. Yes, even now. Yeah.

Mervyn: Yeah.

Kay: Did you feel that at the time? Or is this something that you've learned later in life?

Mervyn: It's something I've learned later in life... later in life... When I made my, sort of apparent recovery, I figured this whole episode was behind me now.

16:19

Kay: Yeah, as you would. Yeah. So, in your book "Polio and Me" you make an interesting observation about the personalities of polio survivors. Can you elaborate on that here, so for example, I had no idea that there were so many famous people who had polio. You call them the 'A' type.

Mervyn: Yeah, it's sort of the 'A' type really. Yeah, and they're reasonably... reasonably forceful personalities. But I've heard it suggested by Dr Bruno, in his book, and others that it was possibly this forcefulness that helped them survive. You know, so there may be a benefit to that. Also, when I was at hospital in Rotorua, some of the physios used it against me. [laughter] In the book there's a story about being in a corridor with a physio, and she said to me, "look, now what I want to do, you see that chair down at the end of the corridor? I want to you to run down and around that chair and back to me as fast as you can." And, ah, she said, ah... and she looked me right in the eye and she said, "The record is 12 seconds." [laughter] So she knew what I would do. She played me. I came panting back, and she said, "7 seconds! We have a new record!" And it took me nearly half and hour to realise I'd been conned. [laughter]

Kay: But it worked!

Mervyn: It worked, yeah. But there is a competitive nature, in a way, and ah... and a number 8 fencing wire-type attitude in some cases. I know of people who have sort of worked out their own little dodges and ways of doing things, you know? So, it's a very versatile little group.

Kay: Yes, to make life easier for yourselves.

Mervyn: Yes.

18:04

Kay: Good idea, yeah. How old were you, or how many years had elapsed since your initial... we'll call it recovery, when post-polio began to manifest, and how has it effected you? Again, only as much as you're happy to share with us.

Mervyn: As precisely as I can say, it was probably mid to late 50s, when I started to notice the funny little things happening. I'd had a couple of sports injuries, which had limited me to a certain extent, with achilles tendons problems and things like that, which meant that I could play football anymore, or something like that, but ah I figure, ok that's an injury. That's... I've crocked myself, you know, that's fine. Ah, but later on, I thought well, gosh, you know, I'm... not as good at this as I used to be, and all that sort of stuff. Ah, maybe I'm just getting old. You know, it happens to everybody, I'm getting old. But I've since learned that, umm, people who've had polio tend to age faster. And in this book, "The Polio Paradox" and everything, it will mention that - quite significantly faster, because of things that have happened to their bodies.

Kay: Mmm. Did the medical profession ever alert you to that?

Mervyn: No.

Kay: So, they never mentioned that you might have a shorter lifespan, or...?

Mervyn: No. Not necessarily a shorter life span, but a curbed activity level, you know.

Kay: Right, right.

Mervyn: I... I went to a doctor once in Canada... with leg pains. And I got an x-ray. And he said, "Oh, I see you have some form of juvenile arthritis." I said, oh that will be the polio. And he said, "ha-ha, don't be silly. Nobody survived polio.

Kay: Amazing.

Mervyn: And I said,"Look, I can tell you of 20 million people who would disagree with you." 'Cause that was then the predicted amount or estimated amount who had recovered from polio. Basically... the basic thing was I changed doctors.

Kay: Yeah, I can imagine. If he didn't know that much... [laughter] Goodness me! So, yeah, they had a lot to learn, didn't they?

Mervyn: Well, once the vaccine came in, my personal theory is they didn't give as much emphasis to it, in their medical training, as before, because polio was a piece of the past.

Kay: Yeah, they thought they didn't have to worry about it anymore.

Mervyn: Yeah. That might be wrong, but that's the feeling that I had. You know, they'd got a class on, probably late on a sunny Friday afternoon or something, you know get it over with. Ah, but umm... yeah, no I really feel that they thought it was a done deal.

20:54

Kay: Mmm. What's your experience been of hospital care and physio, both... well, you probably don't remember much as a child, but... later in life, then, receiving treatment for polio and post-polio? 'Cause what I'm trying to compare is the progress that's been made, if there has been, in treatment and care.

Mervyn: Right... well most of mine is later in life... before... when post-polio was in full cry, I literally thought that I was dying. That I'd started to die, you know? Ah, then when I went to Rotorua, the hospital there, the staff was so good... so good, umm... I say in the book it's the only hospital I've every been, where one of the nurses has made me an apple crumble. [chuckles] You know, the level of treatment was very loving and very caring. And I... can't really speak highly enough of them. And also, one of the problems that I had, when my... I reckon it's a psychological, ah component to the problems, too. 'Cause when my son died - he was a professional wrestler, and just before he died, he had broken, ah, a bone in his left forearm, and it wouldn't heal properly, and he was in great pain from it. And when he died, my left arm went out. It started behaving as though it was broken. And I went to the doctor, and I got x-rays and all that sort of stuff. And I went to a specialist, I was sent to a specialist, and he was almost rude, very cursory, "No, it's not broken. Next!" You know, but when I went to the hospital in Rotorua, I was sitting there, holding hands with a very nice lady physio, and, ah, she was bending my wrist this way and that way, and each time she bent it I would go "Ow! Ow!" And finally she got to a position where it didn't hurt. And she gives me a look and she says, "Did that hurt?" And I said, "No". She says, "Let's try it again." "No." And she looked at me, and she said "You have misaligned tendons." And I thought, man, the specialists did not pick this up, and a physio picks it up. So she sends me back to the doctor, and he confirmed it. And I ended up wearing a splint on that arm for a year. But... you know that's the difference. Just a very... very clever physio... picked it up.

Kay: Mmm, you just have to strike the right people, don't you?

Mervyn: You do.

23:34

Kay: Mmm, so what do you think we could, or should, have learned from the polio epidemic that would have prepared us for COVID, or any future pandemics? 'Cause I don't suppose this is the end of it. Are there any parallels for you in these two experiences?

Mervyn: Well, I've done a bit of research into, ah, Spanish 'flu, for instance. It seemed to have been even more nasty and drastic when it happened, even thought it was for a shorter period. But... it's sort of... it's hard to say. I think that... I've heard it said that, ah... one of the reasons that polio made such... strong inroads on people in the '50s and '60s was because they were cleaner, not because they were dirtier. And if you go back into the 19th Century, and stuff like that, people were often living in fairly messy environments. And the theory goes that that allowed their immune systems to learn to cope with all sorts of nasties. And when they get scrubbed, and polished, and cleaned and rinsed to the nth degree along comes the polio virus - 17,000 of them can sit on the head of a pin, you know, so a pretty small thing - gets into the system and through the gut, and into the blood system, and all the way to the central nervous system. And Dr Bruno, in his book, calls it the perfect human off switch. It just shuts off your muscles. It doesn't waste the muscles. But it tells the muscles to not bother working. And so, ah, it's a... a roundabout way of doing it, so... I think that... what concerns me at the moment is that people will say that we don't need to worry about polio anymore, and you do. And you see people in the community now, saying we don't need to worry about COVID anymore, we've got it sussed. Rubbish! Rubbish! It will mutate and another variant will come along. And you... you sort of take what you've learned, and sort of build on it, rather than saying, "Alright, we can go out and party now, everything's fine. No worries, no problems. Ah, I'm not feeling very well. I wonder why." You know? So... you need to learn. You need to learn from stuff.

Kay: Yes. We're not very good at adapting sometimes, are we? Changing our ways.

Mervyn: No. [chuckles] I... I don't know, I I feel quite strongly about that. I say... so far as the, umm, confinement from COVID was concerned, I say what's so hard about being locked up in a house with my world... with best friend, with my wife? What's so hard about that?

Kay: Yeah. It's great!

Mervyn: I mean, yeah, it's great. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. I'm not going out to work all day, and staggering home tired and worn out. I'm here. Ok, I get a bit annoying sometimes, I guess, for her. But, umm... she tells me I'm very trying. [laughter] Ah, but ah, being together like that was great. It really was, and I didn't complain about that.

Kay: No. I think a lot of people say the same thing. yeah. It's certainly been a good time for some people.

27:04

Mervyn: It has. It has.

Kay: Yeah. You're an active member of Polio New Zealand, as you've mentioned. What are the aims of the group? Can you tell us a bit about them? And how is the group able to support post-polios?

Mervyn: I think so. And if you come across anybody... like, my personal thing is, if I come across anybody who's had a connection with polio in the past, I make sure they're being looked after, and I make sure they know what they're in for. You know? Like my friend... I talk about it in the book, I was doing a story as a journalist, and I figured ok, it's the anniversary of the Salk vaccine, I'll do a story. Hey, I need to find somebody local who's, you know, been involved. And so I got hold of Polio New Zealand. That was the first time I'd ever contacted them. They gave me the name of this lady living locally. So I went round and saw her and had a really nice interview. And when I got to the end of the interview I sort of said as an aside, ah by the way I've had polio too. And her mood changed immediately. She jumped on me. And she said, "How's your arms? How's your legs? How's your back? How's this?" And she started giving me this rundown, this checklist. "I... agh, I'm fine, I'm fine, no worries. Everything's good."  Ah, and then... every time I saw her in the community, 'cause she was a very active lady, I'd go to cover a meeting of some kind, and she'd be sitting there in the front row. And she'd bounce up and she'd ask me the same questions. And she wouldn't leave me alone. In fact, it started to get a bit annoying. And then, when post-polio hit me hard nobody seemed to understand what was happening to me. I thought, I bet you she does. So I called her up, and I put all my woes on her, you know? And she looked... ah, she was on the phone, so she didn't look at me, but she said, "Bullshit! You're much better off than many other people. Let me tell you how." You know? And so she gave me the facts of life, from a polio point of view. And she advised me to try and see if I could get myself referred to the hospital in Rotorua. Which I eventually did. And so one active polio person put me on the road to a more comfortable life. Ok, it didn't happen in five minutes - it was a terribly struggle. But, umm, having somebody like that to talk to was absolutely marvellous. And so it makes me feel that I need to pass it on. If I come across anybody who is in the same boat as I was then, I need to do my duty. You know, I need to help them.

Kay: Mmm, it's a very supportive network, isn't it?

Mervyn: It is very much so. Very much so. And, ah we were talking at the... at the polio morning tea, on... this Monday morning. And we're supposed to run it for an hour, but it always goes over time. I said to the... I said to the group, "Why don't we do this twice a week?" And it was universal, "Yes, let's!" And then the administrator said, "Well, we could always extend it to two hours." You know? And so they are thinking now, about ways of doing it. I said, "Look here, I am, with all my friends. People that understand me. People who talk to me sensibly about what I'm experiencing. People who can give me little cheats, and tips to straighten out different problems, and things like that. You know? For instance, I... I mention in the book... well, this is something I worked out for myself but I mention in the book that I had a period there, when I found it very difficult even to go to bed, because it hurt too much to lie down. And then when I tried to get up, it was almost impossible, 'cause normally what you do, you'd try to sit up and then step out of the bed, sort of thing. I couldn't do that. But I worked out that I could sort of roll on my side to the edge of the bed, swing my legs over the edge and sit up sideways. It didn't hurt as much that way. Once I was sitting up, I could hunch forward on the edge of the bed, a bit closer to the edge, and lean forward, and almost like I was going to fall off the bed. And then I'd just go lurch and stand up. And I was up, and it didn't hurt as much as when I tried to sit up in the old way. That was my little dodge. And if I get up in the night to go to the bathroom, for instance, I'll, ah... when I'm coming back, I'll feel my arm... the outside of my arm. And I can see which side I was lying on because there are wrinkles on this side. And when I get back into bed, I make sure I lie on the other side. 'Cause I was getting sore. For instance, I used to find a position in bed and lie there, and not move. And that's not good. You need to get the movement going.

Kay: You're not exactly relaxed are you?

Mervyn: No, so I would rotate myself by the wrinkle system. And that was something else I worked out for myself. I mentioned it to other people, and I found that others have come... you know, almost to the same... same method, or different variants of it, but ah... each of us has worked little dodges. And I think if you share those, it enriches your life.

Kay: Yeah. Every bit helps, doesn't it?

Mervyn: Yeah.

Kay: Yeah, that's great. So how can people contact the group?

Mervyn: Ah, well if they have access to a computer all they do is just bang in Polio New Zealand, and that will bring up their web page. And that will give them contacts and things like that. Also there's an effort being made to, ah, get more literature in doctors' surgeries, where... you know, you're sitting there waiting for your appointment and you see this little brochure that'll tell you all about maybe post-polio, or something like that. Or sometimes it's called, ah, late effects of polio. So there are two fairly interchangeable terms. Post-polio Syndrome, and late effects of Polio. And, ah, you'll find stuff about that, you know. And... also we have, ah... done little things that we can... I've got my wallet out now, and I'm... there's no money in it at the moment so I can find my way around it very easily. Ah, in here is a... a kind of a drug alert card. You know, which tells people that there are certain drugs that I must avoid: [reads from card] "I had polio. I need reduced dosage. I'm easily sedated, and difficult to waken. Hypersensitive to cold and pain. Overwhelming fatigue and sleep disorders. Muscle weakness, joint pain and I need care in positioning." And then on the back is a whole lot of drugs and things like that, ah... I have to be very careful with. One of the main ones is, umm, if you got to hospital for an operation, and they give you an anaesthetic, they need to be very careful how much they give you. 'Cause I know people who've taken a couple of days to wake up. You know, because of the, ah... different tolerance levels for, ah... you know, post-polio people. So, we put out information like that which is helpful to people.

Kay: It's vital.

Mervyn: Yeah. And we try and do stuff, say through, ah... through libraries. You know, I love my libraries. You know, I belong to as many as five at one time. You know, different specialist libraries, some of them, and things like that. And... honestly they, ah the Palmerston North Library - my wife used to do a lot of research for historical stuff she would write. She spent so much time there, they suggested, "Maybe we could put a cot out the back for you!"

[laughter]

But you know, literally speaking, we love our libraries. When we... when we moved to Upper Hutt, earlier this year, the first thing we did was go down the local road to the branch library and sign up.

Kay: Mmm, yeah. Makes you belong somewhere, doesn't it?

Mervyn: Makes you belong somewhere. I... saw they were having a writing competition, so ah... it was close to the deadline, so I couldn't do much, so I came home, laid out something old, polished it a bit and stuck it in. I knew it wasn't gonna win, but I got a highly-commended, and... got a free dinner and all that sort of thing. But it sort of was a way of saying, "Hey, I'm here." You know? And I'm part of the community, and things like that. And you don't want people with polio to be "I daren't go out. I must stay home." You know? Ah, hey no, you're still alive, and you have a right to try and enjoy a quality life. I was giving a friend... a polio friend a ride once, and... when I was living in Palmerston North. We were going to go to a polio meeting in Whanganui. And he can't drive long distances. So I went round to pick him up. And he was coming towards the car, and he stumbled. And I reached out a hand to catch him. And he said, "NO!" Then he realised how abrupt it mush have sounded, and he gave me a nervous smile. I said, "Don't worry, Bob. If I was in your position, I would have said the same thing." So we both laughed, and he sat in the car, and we drove off, you know. But he wants to look after himself... and he didn't want me rushing up to sort of hold his arm or anything like that. But I said, "Hey, no worries." You know? "I'd be feeling exactly the same as you if the roles were reversed." So we just laughed and got on with it, you know?

Kay: Yeah, you understand each other. Yeah, it's good to have that sort of friendship, isn't it?

Mervyn: Yes, it is. It is.

Kay: Yeah. Wonderful. Well I have come to the end of my questions. Is there anyting you wanted to add?

Mervyn: No, not really.

Kay: Ok.

Mervyn: Basically, you know, ah I want to do for other polio people what my friend did for me initially. You know, put me on the right track, tell me where I can go for help, ah, convince me that I'm not alone. I'm not.

Kay: Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? You're not alone. Yeah, yeah. Good. I really appreciate you talking to me, Mervyn, thank you so, so much.

Mervyn: No worries.

Kay: I'm gonna turn the recording off now.

[Recording ends]